PBUS

I also was at the PBUS Meet in February and unless I was in the wrong convention, I did not hear , see or read anywhere that they were promoting or advocating eliminating recovery agents. I have attended the last 5 in Vegas and have never heard any PBUS official advocate eliminating recovery agents. There has been discussions regarding training of agents.

The suggestion that bail agents, I am one, would just have in house "skip tracers" locate skips and turn the info over to LEO's to make the pickups is total nonsense. If some has the specifics on any proposed law that the PBUS is pushing that would do that, please forward me a copy of it.

To address a few prior posts on this subject;

1)Yes, the majority of the members ATTENDING the conference are older and generally white. That is not the true make up of the membership. Think about it. Who generally has the financial means to take off a week and spend hundreds if not thousands for a week in Vegas? Those that have been in the business for a while and have built up their business enough to have employees mind the store while they are gone.

2) Membership in all state associations are flat also. There are few if any that have showed gains in membership unless they are relatively new.

3) As far as providing training at the conventions, there is only a limited amount of time available for workshops and seminars. Plus there are so many "expert" recovery agents in the country, which one do they choose to teach a class. Besides, most bail agents are NOT going to take a class in hand cuffing, weapons, surviellance, etc. They HIRE recovery agents to do that.

I'm a PBUS member. I AM NOT ON THEIR BOARD OF DIRECTORS. NOR DO I HAVE ANY INFLUENCE ON WHERE THEY HOLD THE CONVENTIONS OR WHAT THE PRGRAM IS. If I did, I would not have invited Mr. Chapman to attend the recent convention.

4) If you want to make recovery agent work a "profession" that is respected, then organize and put together ONE national association, create standards, develope a code of ethics and self police your members.

Bad mouthing bail agents will not gain you anything at all.

Very well put, I am also a Bail Bond Agent but do not have any association with PBUS for quite a few reasons. I choose to investigate skips instead of bonding but keep my license current if ever needed in the future. The only issue I have with your post is the questioning of respect as to my chosen profession and the need to organize in order to obtain such a perch on some imaginary pedestal. Remember I am also a Licensed Bail Bondsman and we have even lower respect in the eyes of the public than lawyers. So in my view you were kinda the pot calling the kettle black albeit, Bail Bonding does have a National Organization although it, does not police, create standards or any code of ethics that are viewed by the state that I am regulated by.

The problem with both professions, bail agents and "bounty hunters" ( I hate to use that term, but that is what the public uses ) is as it is stated every day on this and other sites, are the few bad apples creating problems. When there is a distinction made between the 2, the bounty hunters are getting the most negative publicity right now.

There needs to be one clear industry representative organization that will lead in legislation, for and against, "recommending" training standards and a code of ethics that its members will abide by. When there is a bad incident, the LEO's can contact known "experts" within the association to provide information in general what correct procedures should be. Now each State has different requirements, licenses, etc but a recognized, respected national orgnization will be a valuable source to be used by LEO's.

The PBUS is recognized as the national bail agent association. Some of its members have personal contacts with State and Federal LEO's and politicians. They have been contacted to provide information on proper bail bonding procedures.

Now the PBUS has its has its good and some bad points. So will any national recovery association. If the good far out weigh any bad, then the profession as a whole will benefit and the law enforcement community, courts and general public will hopefully have a better understanding and respect for it.

What happened to the PBUS.com site?

_________________
After all is said and done, more is said than done.



-X-
St. Louis, MO
FRN#2
Member of The C.B.C

TONY IN A PERFECT WORLD I WOULD AGREE ONE ORGANIZATION REPRESENTING BOTH BEA AND SURETY WOULD HAVE MORE CLOUT AND THEREFOR COULD EFFECT QUICKER CHANGE FOR THE BETTER

BUT THIS IS NOT A PERFECT WORLD AND AT TIMES THERE IS A DEFINATE CLASH OF IDEALS--I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT THE PBUS AND MOST BONDS ORGANIZATION LOOK AT US AS NEEDED EVIL TO BE USED ONLY AS A LAST RESORT--THERE ARE MANY OLD TIME UNTRAINED BONDSMEN PICKING UP THERE OWN SKIPS CAUSING THE TRAINED PRO BEA MASSIVE HEADACHES-THERE ARE BONDSMEN HIRING MULTIPLE BEAS TO WORK THE SAME CASE --VERY DANGEROUS--THERE ARE BONDSMEN HIRING AMATURES AND WANNABEES FOR 5 PERCENT OR LESS TO SAVE A BUCK

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

I HAVE TAKEN HUMAN LIFE 6 TIMES IN MY TIME AS A COP ALL IN GUNFIGHTS--I LIVE WITH THAT TODAY AND WILL DIE WITH THAT-IT IS NOT A PLEASENT THOUGHT

AN ASSOCIATION FOR BEA COULD CREAT TRAINING CENTERS IN ACCESSABLE AREAS THROUGH OUT THIS COUNTRY WITH MODERN SHOT NO SHOOT FACILITIES SIMILAR TO LEO - WE COULD HAVE GOOD LEGAL TALENT AT OUR FINGER TIPS-WE COULD EXPERT WITNESSES AVAILABLE TO CONSULT ON SERIOUS CASES-WE COULD GARNER SUPPORT FROM POLITICAL CLOUT--A NATIONAL ASSOCIATION RUN BY SMALLER STATE ASSOCIATIONS WITH A MANDATE TO LISTEN TO ITS MEMBERSHIP IS NOT A PIPE DREAM -WITHOUT IT WE WILL ALL PERISH WITH A PENSTROKE SOME DARK NIGHT IN WASHINGTON D.C. ONE OF THESE YEARS

MOST HIGH RANKING LEO'S WILL SAY GREAT-MOST SHERIFF'S ORGANIZATIONS WILL SAY GREAT-MOST CHIEF ORGANIZATIONS WILL SAY GREAT AND MOST DEFENSE LAWYERS WILL CHEER

THE BUDGETS OF PDS AND SHERIFFS WILL GROW TO HELP MAKE UP FOR OUR LOSS-THEY STILL WILL NOT MATCH OUR PERFORMANCE-THE BONDSMEN WILL GET RICHER-THE PUBLIC WILL GET SCREWED BY HIGHER TAXES-MOST LIKELY THERE WILL BE SAME ABUSES BY PD AS BY BEAS BUT IT WILL BE COVERED UP BETTER AS AN OFFICAL ACT

AGAIN JUST MY 2 CENTS--INA FEW YEARS I WILL SAY I TOLD YOU SO

Hadley I think he was saying that we need our own organization seperate from PBUS if I read his post correct. I am pleased at his well thought out response and respect his position on this issue. We have been talking about a National Organization for years with no results and Hadley you are now trying to spark interest in this again. Lets hope that yopur efforts gain some momentum this time if, we do not do something sooner rather than later we will all be in trouble. Look at what Don has posted recently about one state passing a law that slaps the Supreme Court in the face.

Bob I have always valued your opinion and the opinion of all pro here and if i misunderstood Tony i apologize and you are right if we as a group does not start to organize we will disappear very soon-there are some many different ways of approaching this i want everybody involved to have a say in our organization and i do thinka core group is the way to start than we come out with a mission statement and statement of both short and long term goals--i could be wrong - lets get together on the phone or in private chat the core group of reps from all areas and hammer out a mission statement -with a member list willing to sign as chartewr members--we keep taking baby steps until we can get up and run--i am not the be all end all just a man with a dream and a foggy crystal ball--each one of you speak to people in your area take notes and lets take the first step--

Just to clarify my last post, I agree with the idea of seting up a national recovery agent association SEPARATE from the bail agents association.

The PBUS is not focused on doing away with recovery agents! We are trying to clean up the bad bail agents in the bail industry. We are also trying to educate bail agents, courts and LE.

The most important part of having a nationally recognize recovery agent association is being the ONE resource or clearing house that LE, Courts, DAs and yes bail agents can turn to for expert advice.

Most State and the PBUS have an associate membership catagory. So recovery agents that are not licensed bail agents can join. I would hope that a recovery agent association would offer the same type of associate membership for persons affiliated with the industry.

One last point. If you or any other agent is "screwed" by a bail bond agent let other agents know about it. If you have a solid contract and they breach it, take them to court. If you can prove that they are doing anything illegal, report them to the State DOI, your local DA and sheriff.

Bad bail agents will ruin the business just as much as bad recovery agents.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I appreciate all of the considered opinions posted and enjoyed reading them all. I am a PI, Bondsman (both professional and insurance) and BEA, and I am a member of PBUS. I belong to numerous other professional organizations as well, yet industry specific.

PBUS is a lobbying group that watches out for the best interests of it's members. Since I, like many of you, wear many hats in this industry, I too take offense to some of their actions.

I do not believe that Mr. Chapman is indicative of the professionals in this industry, no matter how he presented himself. He is a convicted felon, period.
I do not hold to the attitude that PBUS has towards the recovery industry, but I understand why they do.

I have not taken their CRA classes but intend to. I like training. I can practice discernment and shed what I deem as superfluous, retaining what is practical in my area.

Understand that they are in the business of mitigating liability. They represent insurance companies, the ones that get sued when a recovery goes south. The insurance companies receive a very minor portion of the money collected when a bond is posted. Yet they are the ones that the attornies go after, stepping over the recovery agent and often the bondsman. That is why they do not support our industry, as we represent liability that they feel belongs solely to the bondsman.

To be effective, they must attract membership, maybe that was Chapman's job. Clearly it illicited numerous discussions on similar venues.
So they succeeded.

How do BEA's unite? They must understand that associations take time and money to maintain. They are not profitable and have no perceived value. The value must be added, through benefits for joining. These benefits might be a lobbying effort, organized presentations to state legislatures, State Bail Associations etc., a uniform code of ethics, and an agreed upon training and certification program. There are people on this board that teach like Hadley and Lance, Myself through the NABEA and many others.

The skill sets are in place. We need to establish a uniform teaching curriculum and methodology, then establish a fee schedule and regions
where BEA's can receive uniform training. When this is completed and the bugs are worked out, we can invite LEO and Legislators to proctor what we are teaching and move for a National Acknowledgement or identification, hopefully under Homeland Security.

Stay safe all,

_________________
R.E. "Scott" MacLean III

"Leaders are like Eagles, you never see them in a flock, but one at a time"

Chesapeake Group Investigations, Inc.
Chesapeake Bail Bonds
877-574-0500
301-392-1100 (fax)
301-392-1900 (Office)

Well said, Scott!

I've said it for years and I'll say it again... our industry screams for a national association and has been screaming for years (at least since 1997) "but" it will never happen. If the old timers will recall it has been tried so many times by so mant people and got nowhere. It has also been tried recently and got nowhere. Those are the facts, ladies and gentlemen.

As for Mr. Chapman speaking at the PBUS convention... he does NOT represent what our industry is about and allowed PBUS to appear as "sell-out-clowns" to the pros who risk life and limb every day. He has a scripted comedy show for entertainment purposes only. Having Mr. Chapman at the PBUS convention is comparable to having Barney Fife represent law enforcement at a PBUS convention. His antics are far from being a truthful representation of the industry and a total sham built on a foundation of lies, misrepresentations and media exploitation. Unfortunately, he has had an extremely negative ongoing effect on bail enforcement and has put us all in harm's way; not to mention his so-called 'informants' whose names and faces appeared on national television. There... that should get his groupies fired up.

A national association? I'm all for it but where is it? I long ago established I would do what I could to support such a struggle but where in Hades is the struggle I report to?

_________________
Lance Allen Wilkinson
Recoveries by L.A.W.
Serving since 1984
“What is sought is found... what is overlooked escapes” (Oedipus Rex)