Certification?

I am amazed at the number of people who offer 'certification' via their newly established training 'Academy'. During my twenty (plus) years in the bail enforcement field I've seen them come and go a hundred-fold and their 'certification' eats the dust.

I've always said and I continue to say... "Who 'certified' the 'certifiers'? Personally, I don't believe in so-called 'certification'; its a word employed primarily to entice the applicant.

A concern for the 'certifiers'... if your graduate goes into the field and runs afoul of the law, you stand a good chance of being included in any tort actions filed against the accused.

Just my opinion.

_________________
Lance Allen Wilkinson
Recoveries by L.A.W.
Serving since 1984
“What is sought is found... what is overlooked escapes” (Oedipus Rex)

Interesting point, L.A.W..

I suppose one would be compelled to delve further into exactly what the recipient of a certificate had been exposed to by a given school, course, academy, institute or whatever.

A course primarily focusing on BEA studies, for example, may only serve to allow the graduate to put cool letters after his or her name on a business card.

However, if the course also contained state certified instructors teaching primarily law enforcement related subjects then such training should be allowed some weight.

As for a tort action, I suspect that a civil action could only withstand demurrer or a motion for summary judgment if it could be proven that the damages were inflicted in a manner consistent with the methods underwhich the student was taught, and those methods were found to be unconstitutional or just plain outrageous/negligent.

While everyone and their neighbor gets named as a defendent in a civil suit, yes a certifier could be held liable, but unless the school was complicit in some way, I'm leaning towards a dismissal for the school.

But then again, who wants to be a test case?

Rex

It doesn't matter whether or not the school is dismissed from any civil action. What matters is... "you might beat the rap but you won't miss the ride downtown." The ride downtown will cost THOUSANDS of dollars (speaking from first-hand experience!) and months, if not years, of court appearances further aggravated by negative publicity.

MOST so-called 'certifiers' barely have enough experience in the field to be able to spell the word certify.

All I'm stating here to anyone applying for BEA training... check out the certifiers.

_________________
Lance Allen Wilkinson
Recoveries by L.A.W.
Serving since 1984
“What is sought is found... what is overlooked escapes” (Oedipus Rex)

L.A.W., your point is well taken; however, a distinction should be made between civil and criminal. Civil matters (torts) generally do not result in an arrest unless contempt of court, failure to pay judments, or some other obscure violation has occurred.

I understand your position with respect to checking out the school operators; indeed, this is good advice.

But sticking to your original post, I believe you were orignially pointing to vicarious liability as it pertains to school operators, and on the weight of this belief, are you aware of any school operators that have been subjected to criminal or civil prosecution? If so, I would be interested in referencing the case or cases for my own edification.

Also, and I'm just curious here, on what information is the generalization that "most" certifiers can't spell as it relates to BEA experience? Again, I'm not trying to be provocative, but rather it is my intention to fully understand your point.

Personally, I make a conscious effort not to confirm or deny events or ongoings that I have not witnessed in an effort to preserve my standing. As my position has been made clear throughout this forum, blanket statements based on unfounded information is counter-productive in the larger picture enveloping the bail enforcement trade.

Rex

Blanket statements? Please!!!! I am not going to go into all the idiots and crap I've witnessed throughout the years with dysfunctioonal so-called BEA's.

You know fully well what I meant and to try and elasticize the situation into other realms is not what I meant to do.

I made my point and that is the end of that as far as I'm concerned.

Again... check into who certified the certifiers before enrolling into training.

_________________
Lance Allen Wilkinson
Recoveries by L.A.W.
Serving since 1984
“What is sought is found... what is overlooked escapes” (Oedipus Rex)

BOTH YOU GUYS SAY THE SAME THING IN DIFFERENT WAYS-LANCE (LAW)
AND I WORK TOGETHER ON A DAILY BASIS(HE BOTH WRITES AND SPELLS MUCH BETTER THAN I DO-I TEND TO WRITE NY REPORT STYLE)(SHORTEN EVERYTHING,USE AS FEW LETTERS AS POSSIBLE AND GET IT DONE ASAP).WE BOTH TEACH THE ONLY(HERE IT COMES KIDDIES)NH ACCEPTED BEA COURSE USING LANCES BOOK AS THE MANUAL.WE HAVE HAD STUDENTS THAT HAVE TAKEN OTHER CLASSES-NIBE, NABEA ,ETC. AND INTERNET CLASSES.WE ASK FOR FRANK OPINIONS OF OUR TRAINING STYLE AND CONTENT AS COMPARED TO THE OTHER CLASSES-SO FAR ALL OUR STUDENTS RATE US AS TOPS.I LAY IT OUT UP FRONT-THE FIRST WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH ARE-- I CAN TEACH YOU JUST ENOUGH IN 20 HOURS TO GET YOURSELF EITHER KILLED OR IN MAJOR TROUBLE.I RECOMMEND YOU SEEK OUT A BEA AND APPENTICE WITH THEM FOR A LEAST 1 YEAR BEFORE GOING OUT ON YOUR OWN.

HERE COMES MY OPINION ON CERTIFICATIONS-BOTH LAW AND REX ON RIGHT ON TARGET-CKECK OUT THE INSTRUCTOR IS HE CERTIFIED TO INSTRUCT TASER USE BY TASER INTERNATIONAL OR BY UNCLE FRED PIZZA AND TASER SCHOOL.I SUBMIT IF YOU ARE SUED FOR INCORRECT TASER USE I THINK THE CERTIFICATE BY TASER INTERNATIONAL WILL CARRY A WHOLE LOT MORE WEIGHT THAN UNCLE TOMS PIZZA.

I AM A NRA HANDGUN AND SHOTGUN INSTRUCTOR AND DO TEACH COURSES TO BOTH CIVILANS AND LEOS .I ALSO WAS AND INSTRUCTOR FOR NYPD MANY YEARS AGO(15) ON HANDCUFFING ,TACTICAL BATON,
PLUSE MANY OTHER AREAS.
I HAVE NOT TAKEN A HANDCUFFING NOR BATON CERTIFICATION CLASS IN 15 YEARS SO I DO NOT TEACH THOSE AREAS- TO MANY THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN THE TIME I HAVE NOT RECERTED.I AM A CURRENT RED CROSS ADVANCED FIRST AID AND CPR INSTRUCTOR AND DO TEACH THESE THINGS.WHAT I AM GETTING TO IS BE CAREFUL IN SELECTING YOUR SCHOOLING AND GET WHAT YOUR PAYING FOR.
I KNOW THAT LANCE(LAW),MYSELF,REX AND ALL THE OTHER PRO BEAS OUT THERE WILL TELL YOU GET AS MUCH EDUCATION AS YOU CAN AFFORD-MAKE IT QUALITY ED.CHECK OUT OUT THE PERSON GIVING THE COURSE-DID HE OR SHE BY A TERRITORY AND BECOME AND INSTANT INSTRUCTOR OR DID THEY PAY THEIR DUES ON THE STREET-WAR STORIES ARE GREAT FUN TO BREAK UP A BORING CLASS SECTION OR TO ILLUSTRATE A POINT WHILE TRAINING BUT SUBSTANCE BY A QUALIFIED AND KNOWLEDGEABLE INSTRUCTOR ARE MOST IMPORTANT.

Hgunner, great job mediating the points. I believe you got to the crux of the matter at hand rather easily, which is reflective of your long-time experience in the people businesses.

I was a tac officer in the academy, SRT, ERT, CRTA here and there, and, still, I could not offer a three-day course to cover what a BEA needs to know. The only thing I could do is take an apprentice and teach him/or over a period of a year while actively working cases.

I commend you and L.A.W. for being able to put a course together--that is State certified correct me if I'm wrong--because doing so is no small task.

Rex

The NH course is NOT state certified. It is a requirement by the state that an applicant successfully complete the course (in addition to having minimum liability insurance in the amount of $300,000) but the course is not 'certified' by the state.

_________________
Lance Allen Wilkinson
Recoveries by L.A.W.
Serving since 1984
“What is sought is found... what is overlooked escapes” (Oedipus Rex)

Thank you for clarifying that point, L.A.W..

There have been a number of insurance companies offering various types of insurance for people actively conducting BEA work, but these companies come and go.

Are you aware of any insurance company that can be queried for the purpose of obtaining such insurance?

Rex

Man, one posting turns into a full on battle. I agree with L.A.W. as far as the amout of people going around handing out certifications. It's getting a bit ridiculous. But who am I to say, I'm just an agent not an instructor. Personally I wouldn't dare tread in the online certification area much less these new schools popping up out of nowhere. Its a big enough problem here in Colorado. Every time you open up the phone book there is a new school listed. Not to mention the fact that bail bond agents still "green" are handing out certificates. In my opinion, its all about the money.