Thanks to the Pros on the board!

I had some practicals this week for my 02E course in VA and I watched others fail because they went RAMBO style which is the first lesson I learned on this board NOT to do. One practical, process serve. First four up, (VA is open carry State) put on their to quote Scott "Batman Belts" with guns showing in military style BDU's and went to people's houses at all different times in the middle of the night (between 2 & 4 am). Then they wondered why no one would answer the door or threaten to call the police on them. Gee - I can't imagine why(That's me being saracastic)

I took the advice from the board, I went cleaned shaven, dressed in a white polo shirt, pressed jeans, and sneakers and knocked at a reasonable time (18:15) knowing they worked and people normally come home around that time. Amazingly, door was opened and I said "Hello Mrs. *****, sorry to bother you this evening, how are you?" with a polite smile. I got a polite response back and said well I am afraid I have to give you this. No issues, in fact - I got a thank you.

So some are probably thinking "Lucky shot". WRONG - I did this to the others that wouldn't answer their doors to the RAMBO wannabes. Everyone answered the door and everyone was polite. One even asked if I was with the people that came to their house in the middle of the night with guns. I said "No" and told them if that happened to me I wouldn't answer and I would call the police right away. Well - I would.

All together I served 5 people (Got stuck taking care of the other 4). Then learned take each different type in Montgomery County, MD. 27 Courthouse Rd I think was the address.

Moral of the the story - Treat others as you would want to be treated and there is no need for Rambo - leave him in the movies. Read the board, learn how the pros do it, when you do, it's really not that hard to avoid a problem or altercation and will make your job a lot easier. But follow the advice of posters in Blue!!! They know their stuff....A SMILE GOES A LONG WAY!

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Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday.

VA DCJS #99-99238446

Sorry if Im being dumb, but are you talking about process serving? Like a Legal Messenger? If so, you had to 'qualify' for it?

In WA anyone can be a legal messenger, and I have NEVER heard of anyone using weapons or any intimidating tactics to serve their people... its all about being sneaky.

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Greg M.
Seattle Area

Good Job...... Great to see some people take the advice from the pro's here.

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Steve Faircloth
A Way Out Bail Bonds
(220) 204-9733 Cell
NSIN# SF0105
LIC. #704058

There is alot more to it here as well.

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Do not consider anything for your interest which makes you break your word, quit your modesty, or inclines you to any practice which will not bear the light, or look the world in the face .... Marcus Antonius

I AM Some Folks "KARMA" and A MODERATOR @ FRN

@Jory 12,

it was part of a practical. The instructor gave us 4 practicals total. This part required us to use public databases to confirm address & info then serve (which I think you are correct, any 3rd party can do), then deliver to the correct department in the court house, then bring the stamped copy back from the court house. There are different desks for certain docs.

Another practical was to sit in a fixed location and observe a property and take notes and pics (using old fashioned 35mm camera, so had to know speeds for light conditions).

And then we where told to follow someone who are instructor said knew someone would follow and don't get seen.

Last practical was interview technique and what to ask and not ask a person while trying to notice their body language.

These are all part of the course, but no matter how much you learn in a school, it doesn't matter because until you find someone or learn from someone or get advice from someone, you still have no clue what the correct way of doing things are. School is simply teaching you the laws and what is required under DCJS, anything else, you learn the hard way (which can get you in trouble) or heed the advice of senior posters who actually do this for a living. There is a big difference.

I like my instructor, but he is LE background, so if I question or ask something he thinks is more than what is necessary, he tells me straight up, that's for you to find out. Example was, if I pass, and once I am licensed in VA, which databases do you suggest? The response was "That's not part of the course, so find out on your own". Arrrgghh. I know I can't get access now, but once an instructor knows the person is licensed, I would have thought they would explain that. This is why a lot of people make mistakes, and DCJS should look at the mistakes by BEA & PI's in VA and do a root cause analysis to break down and eliminate the errors beforehand. Or do what MD does and make them work under someone for a couple of years first.

If it wasn't for the butt chewings on questions or advice from senior members, I would have made the some mistakes (like going Rambo style
or when I am licensed transporting a female incorrectly). There is so much more to learn than what is taught in a classroom.

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Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday.

VA DCJS #99-99238446

Sounds like a great school to take! If only I wasnt on the west coast, I would participate.

Ive always wondered about rules of escalation, like for example: You find your skip and say he is sitting on a couch completely passive and unwillingly to get up. Say he is bigger than you and will outright over power you unless you have the element of suprise etc etc. I am assuming you cannot just mace the guy in the face and than tackle him... at least I wouldnt. What do you do?

I am sure I will learn everything when I start training, but its questions like that that always make me wonder.

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Greg M.
Seattle Area

Sorry for the delay, I finished my 02E (PI) this evening and passed. The school is very good but I ask a lot of questions so I drive my instructor nuts at times I won't do anything until I am licensed in VA, and even then I won't work alone. There is always someone bigger and badder than you. Go with a partner, never go alone. People go alone all the time, but it's a big risk safety and liability wise but they only see the money.

The scenerio you describe is the worse case in my personal opinion. The two partners need to know the fugitive's history and determine who is contact and who is cover. First try the polite professional approach. If that doesn't work, then identify yourself and give vocal commands loudly for witness's in the area to hear clearly, i.e. "Hands, let me see your hands". Those are the first things you want to see. Watch how they move their hands and how their elbow moves if they move them. The school should show you or explain this to you. A simple posture difference can be the difference from raising their hand to drawing a weapon.

If they refuse and sit there arms crossed, the contact person then attempts to take into custody. If subject gets violent (without weapons) and if you are OC Certified, you can spray. You can not use baton unless the level of violence has been risen by the fugitive and you need to be baton certified; if you use it, you need to make sure its only on green areas and afterwards you need to follow the 3, C's. Control, Custody, Care. If you strike with the baton (vs. block), you need to take the person to the hospital so make sure you know where the hospitals are! VA has 4 levels of violence. You can not use brandish, draw, or use a firearm to intimidate a fugitve in VA. It was pounded in my head - AOJP (Ability, Opportunity, Jepardy, Preclusion). You can not draw your firearm unless their is an edged weapon or a firearm by the fugitve is seen or pulled. In other words, if fugitive pulls a bat, you can NOT draw your firearm. A bat is not an edged weapon. Even then, you need to be prepared to retreat.

Do not fire your weapon unless you have no place to retreat and there is absolutely no other way to defend yourself in VA. It's better to wait for the person and attempt to get them standing out in the open, pressure points and stances will work to your advantages that you can't get on the couch or on the ground. The school I attended did NOT teach taser, so I am going to check with DSI and ask him if he teaches that and ask about the liability with them. Make sure you have a good partner(s). You screw up - you might be asking your bondsman to bond you out!

If I am wrong in any statement above, a senior poster will probably correct me and it's better to listen to them, they have been doing this for a living and they know better. All I have done is learned what is required in school, I have zero actual experience yet. Probably can't start until End of May.

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Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday.

VA DCJS #99-99238446