4am, they won't open the door... • PUBLIC SECTION • Open Discussion • Fugitive Recovery Network (FRN) Forums
FRN Banner
wordpress-ad





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Author Message
 Post subject: 4am, they won't open the door...
 Post Posted: Mon 15 Jan 2007 09:09 
Offline
Advanced Poster
Advanced Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu 06 Jul 2006 14:22
Posts: 3982
Location: Maryland and Virginia
FRN Agency ID #: 455
Experience: More than 10 years
I am posting this because it just happened and I wanted to share the thought process, options and actions for discussion. I also thought that it would provoke the arm chair quarterbacks and give the newbies some incite.

I received a call from a prominent local bondsman; he has a skip that he must pay on Tuesday. They always wait to the last minute, don't they :)
I speak with the Indemnitor/wife and she tells me where he will be in the evening and where he will lay his head. I run his criminal history to see what I am dealing with; you guessed it, all crimes of violence, women police etc.

I ran the apartment buildings where he was supposed to be. All the information we had was the car that his niece was driving, and her apartment number. I used a confidential informant that knows the complex and people to give me some Intel.

The white girl in the Chevy Monte Carlo is pregnant by "One" of the black guys that lives there. There are always at least three black males there, but often times more, and none of them work.

I check in with the locals, they want to be on scene due to the area and the history in that apartment. In the back of my mind, I am thinking you just want into the apartment for probable cause for a warrant/seizure and everyone else there. (Previous history involved shootings, stabbings, drugs etc.) We wait for them to show and set up surveillance.

Our target is an early 40's white male, with thick curly hair. He has distinguishing tattoos so if he is uncooperative, we can positively ID him.
In December, he had neck surgery and has had previous back surgeries. We learn that the locals across the Potomac River in MD had trashed his house the night before, running him to his Niece's apartment in VA.

A dark Dodge Durango pulls up to the front of the building by the Monte Carlo and a guy gets out fitting the description of our guy, but it is pouring rain and you can't be sure. As the Durango leaves, the Sheriff pulls in. The potential target spins around like his head is an Owl's, and darts into the building. The buildings have an open pass through from the front to the back, so I exited my vehicle and ran to the back of the building in case he made it for the woods. My partners brief the Deputy, and observe him going into our target apartment. The apartment is on the third floor, making it one heck of a jump for our target. My partner discovers that the window is wide open, but the screen is in place, ripe for a panicked dive to freedom.

I make contact with the Indemnitor to ask what kind of car he drives, and she said he doesn't have one anymore. I asked what she drives, looking for the connection to the Durango, without letting her know that it was observed. Nothing there, but may have been his sister, mother of the Niece giving him shelter.

With the outside covered, we make a knock at the door. No response. It is now 4:30 am and we are the guests that wouldn't leave. Suffice it to say, the knocking was so loud and persistent, that we had the entire building awake. We had all kinds of assistance as well, all telling the Deputy about how she has all of these men in the apartment, nobody works, they have seen our target etc. They went so far as to calling friends to call them to get them to come to the door so they could get back to sleep.

No help, no answer. Decision time, kick the door or not? The Deputies, two now, are convinced as is our entire crew that they are in there. If he wasn't there, they would have come to the door.

What do I have? A pregnant girl, known drug activity, multiple adult males, a fugitive that is in panic mode, with significant medical history and an open 3rd floor window. The bond he jumped on? $5,000.00. He had Child Support Warrants as well as the CDS and Fleeing and Alluding charges.

Liability and mitigating it is our business. I make a call to the bondsman, if I am awake and dealing with this, so should he. I explain the entire situation, and he asks my opinion. I believe we should disengage; the potential liability eclipses the real liability of paying the bond. He agrees and we have the Deputies leave first, hoping that the public exit might flush him. We wait in the rain an additional 1 1/2 hours, sun is coming up. We have crew that has work requirements so staying isn't an option, we leave the scene.

Could things have been different? Absolutely, if we had been called when the bond forfeiture was received, allowing us more time. We could have done our surveillance and set him up, hopefully without incident. This bondsman used to be a Sheriff, so having the locals recover his skips has always been the order of the day. We get brought in when they go out of his realm of influence. He saves money that way. Prior to us, he has never hired BEA's. His thought process being that since he is a multi-millionaire, his potential liability is so high, he would rather pay the bond and sue the Indemnitor. In MD, you have 10 years for 100% refund upon petition, if the subject is re-arrested.

Thoughts?

Scott

_________________
R.E. "Scott" MacLean III

"Leaders are like Eagles, you never see them in a flock, but one at a time"

Chesapeake Group Investigations, Inc.
Chesapeake Bail Bonds
877-574-0500
301-392-1100 (fax)
301-392-1900 (Office)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon 15 Jan 2007 11:40 
Offline
Advanced Poster
Advanced Poster

Joined: Sat 14 Aug 2004 16:44
Posts: 993
Scott the way you presented the scenario, I would have done the same... the payout was small compared to the potential liability issues at hand. It is the bonding companies fault for waiting and not allowing for a more favorable set of circumstances to prevail as it would have had you had the case earlier in the process.

By the way... job well done!


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon 15 Jan 2007 12:34 
Offline
in memoriam

Joined: Thu 16 Jun 2005 16:04
Posts: 4598
Location: NE Alabama
FRN Agency ID #: 5
Experience: More than 10 years
OK, you have a 3rd party address, pre-existing medical conditions on at least 2 possible inhabitants, a crowd of bystanders, 2 cops at the door, and no positive id of your fugitive; Additionally, you could have been facing an unknown number of possibly heavily armed, drug-induced persons that more than likely might have engaged in "panic fire", possibly striking an innocent person.

Scott, I don't see what other recourse you had but to back off and try again later.

You didn't have permission to enter the house, the police presence would have negated your apprehension because it would have placed it under "the colour of law", the bystanders presented liability issues with possible injuries and/or interference, and last but not least, the stress induced by a forced entry, armed persons all screaming at the inhabitants, etc could have induced negative medical conditions esp. on the pregnant woman. Had the stress induced a forced labor, and the child came out dead, or it caused her to miscarry...I don't even want to think about what you and your team would be facing.

This scenario should be included in a text manual and used for training purposes throughout the country.

That's my take on the situation, I hope I am somewhat correct in my humble opinion.

The old addage "Discretion is the better part of Valor" rings very true in this situation.

_________________
River City Associates
Decatur, Al. 35601


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon 15 Jan 2007 16:29 
Offline
Advanced Poster
Advanced Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu 23 Nov 2006 18:44
Posts: 1311
Location: San Ramon, CA
FRN Agency ID #: 1366
Experience: 7 - 10 years
I'm with Mindtracker on this..Too much liability and unknowns. I've walked away from situations and not felt guilty..just called the bondsman to let them know what happened..Nice job on it..I think this is something we can all learn from.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Mon 15 Jan 2007 20:22 
Offline
Advanced Poster
Advanced Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu 06 Jul 2006 14:22
Posts: 3982
Location: Maryland and Virginia
FRN Agency ID #: 455
Experience: More than 10 years
Mindtracker
You picked up on a very key issue here, one I purposely did not expound upon earlier. Under "Color of Law" with law enforcement present, I could not have forced entry legally. For reasons previously listed, it would not have been prudent anyway, but in this scenario, patently against the law.

The liability I was hired to protect would have been exponentially increased had we forced entry, regardless of the outcome.

Thanks for the responses. I want some from the newbies, the time to learn his on this forum, not in the field. You can make a mistake here for free :)

Scott

_________________
R.E. "Scott" MacLean III

"Leaders are like Eagles, you never see them in a flock, but one at a time"

Chesapeake Group Investigations, Inc.
Chesapeake Bail Bonds
877-574-0500
301-392-1100 (fax)
301-392-1900 (Office)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue 16 Jan 2007 02:43 
Offline
in memoriam
User avatar

Joined: Fri 01 Sep 2006 05:07
Posts: 211
Location: Tucson, Arizona
FRN Agency ID #: 1343
Experience: More than 10 years
Well sense we are here to learn, I'm going to tell the truth. I had a lot a problems with this one. I tried to work it over in my mind like I was there with you. I think you made the right choice. However I think somewhere durning the night I would have said lets hit that door. Or at least thought it.
My firsts thoughts went to some kind of pretexing. "Yelling out your harboring a know fugitive your all going to jail if you don't open up right now etc. Or if you had the phone number let it ring. I thought if you could have got a message to some one inside to open that door for a few dollor's. But with the subject being such a high risk I ruled that one out. Note I ran the case in my head useing Arizona third party entry laws's.
You laid out the perefect storm, very frustrateing.
I not as busy as you. I might have gone back about 11.00 when everyone was asleep and hid someplace, or try to get a vantage pont and tried again. Maybe later on try to talk to one of the brother's in the parking lot, try to spread around some good will for another try or some info. "You can see where this is going."
The case makees me want to fly up there and rent a car, and work the case with you.
I did not even think about he color of law aspect. "Arizona leo for the most part does not come out BEA cases" When you catch this guy please let me know. mark

_________________
Mark C. Cavendish is a Certified Fugitive Recovery Agent, P.O.S.T. Certified by the State of Colorado and registered with the Arizona Department of Insurance. Member of the National Surety Investigators Network #MC806, The U.S. Professional Bail Bond Investigators Association, and a Life Member of The U.S. Coalition of Bail recovery Agents "Cobra" Control # 1058. Serveing Arizona, Colorado and New Mexico.
phone 520.850.7490 24/7/365

"Sub Rosa"


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue 16 Jan 2007 03:54 
Offline
Advanced Poster
Advanced Poster

Joined: Wed 10 Nov 2004 21:00
Posts: 664
FRN Agency ID #: 4006
Experience: More than 10 years
Mark I'm sure Scott tried some of the tactics you mentioned and then some, I think Scott did the right thing, it's frustrating as hell in that human nature kicks in and says I'm not gonna let this guy get over on me, those SOB's are just on the other side of that door making a fool of me, I'm gonna take down the door and go in, result ? unknown !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scott is smart enough not to risk his safety and financial well being on the unknown, someone with less patience, experience and little to lose would likely have succumb to the temptation to go through the door, they may have gotten the skip with no liability, or all hell could have broke loose and everyone blames the BEA, not a risk I would take.

I've been in some similar situations and had trouble sleeping because I was aggravated that someone got over on me, in most cases I caught up with the skip later.

The only thing I may have done different is I would have tried to get some of my newbees to come out and set up surveillance before I left, doing boring surveillance in the middle of the night is a good learning experience for them, plus it gives me a chance to see who can handle it.

_________________
Chuck


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue 16 Jan 2007 08:21 
Offline
Advanced Poster
Advanced Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu 06 Jul 2006 14:22
Posts: 3982
Location: Maryland and Virginia
FRN Agency ID #: 455
Experience: More than 10 years
Chuck
Do you have any newbies for rent?

Scott

_________________
R.E. "Scott" MacLean III

"Leaders are like Eagles, you never see them in a flock, but one at a time"

Chesapeake Group Investigations, Inc.
Chesapeake Bail Bonds
877-574-0500
301-392-1100 (fax)
301-392-1900 (Office)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue 16 Jan 2007 10:40 
Offline
in memoriam
User avatar

Joined: Sat 07 Jun 2003 13:51
Posts: 705
Location: New England
I've faced similar situations many times and always walked away... again, liability issues rule.

_________________
Lance Allen Wilkinson
Recoveries by L.A.W.
Serving since 1984
“What is sought is found... what is overlooked escapes” (Oedipus Rex)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
 Post Posted: Tue 16 Jan 2007 10:57 
Offline
Advanced Poster
Advanced Poster
User avatar

Joined: Thu 09 Mar 2006 14:51
Posts: 3344
FRN Agency ID #: 3904
Experience: More than 10 years
A less than thoughtful bail agent would have wanted you to break in and pick up the skip, regardless of possible liabilities.

I would say to all recovery agents, when you get a case like this with very little time to work it, don't let ego or perceived expertise cloud your thought process. This bail agent had plenty of time to send this case out. By waiting to the last minute he MAY have been hoping to find a recovery agent that would forget about the safe and legal ways of making the pick up just to get a few bucks. Or maybe he thought some one would look at it as a great challenge.

The more bail agents have to pay on such cases the sooner they will learn not to sit on them. But, then again with enough new, hungry hunters out there, I guess there will always be someone who will kick in the door. We read about them every now and then in the newspaper as they are being arrested.


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 50 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

FRN Forums » PUBLIC SECTION » Open Discussion


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 157 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Fugitive Recovery Network

FRN Forum
Login
Forum
Register
Forum FAQ


directory



ad_here_1