Hung up on CCW

This topic has been discussed many, many, many times… but…

ooookkkkkk.............. I knew where this was headed..... I will only offer this short tidbit of advice... carrying concealed is tricky... very tricky... I probably own at least a dozen "concealable" handguns... everything from a .45 Taurus Millennium Pro to a LCP .380 Ruger... and in between... I DO NOT OWN A GLOCK... NOT ONE... so you can now blast me... they are extremely reliable... but so are others... it is simply a matter of opinion... I also do not drive a Ford.... now, jump on that one

However, here's my take on carrying concealed... CONCEALED IS SPELLED... “HIDDEN, NOT VISIBLE, COVERT, UNDERCOVER”…

If you want to be a “COWBOY”… buy an 8” Dan/Wesson .44 mag. heavy vent barrel with a gun belt, cartridge belt with silver stars and buckle up… but if you really want to be covert, carry concealed… you need to research caliber, size, holster and try them on…

What I carry is directly related to where I am at the time… I usually wear a ‘golf’ type shirt, outside my pants with no coat, so it is fairly easy to carry covert… my usual carry weapon is a Ruger LC9… (9mm)

... because the little LC9 is the “thinnest” that I have found (there are smaller but this is a trade off... again, IMHO) and is easily clipped inside my belt on the right… and I might mention that it has a ‘lazer’ sight attached… something you may want to seriously consider… there are many available but IMHO… that is probably one of the best related to size/caliber/holster… I also have several Beretta’s… (also a brand I like) PX4 storm… 9mm full size, .40 full size and a sub-compact .40… also an LCP .380 with a ‘lazer’ sight attached… ... yes... that is a roll of toilet paper on the right... which is useful if and when you have to "pull" on someone... trust me...

Comparing the two Rugers for size... in their little "Uncle Mike" pouches...


You can even consider a little wheel gun... like this Ruger SP101 hammer-less...

or maybe a Springfield XD.40 compact... (just make damn sure you unload it before you try to clean it... no, that is another story... )

One other thought… the little .380 Ruger drops in my pants pocket when I have to carry and my shirt is tucked in… it is a smaller/lighter caliber but I am of the opinion that it will still put a nice hole in whatever and is a deterrent when needed… something is better than nothing… trust me… there is no visible bulge in either case… and I don’t believe you will know that I am carrying… unless I tell you.

I have said this many times... guns are like women and cars.... the reason there are so many different styles... is because there are so many different opinions... preferences...

Remember this little quote... "THERE IS NO SINGLE RIGHT ANSWER HERE, BUT THERE ARE MANY WRONG ONES"

Research and go to the range often... training is paramount, regardless of what you choose.

_________________
Bill Marx, Sr.
"FREE STATE BAIL BONDS"
"FREE STATE INVESTIGATIONS"
DCJS: 99-176979
Cell: 434-294-0222

"Endeavor to Persevere" "Lone Watie"

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that , comes from bad judgment" "Will Rogers"

I usually don't chime in on weapon discussions as I may be the least experienced with them, time wise.

However, I go to the local range very offten. Just this past Monday, Presidents day, I ran 200 rounds through my G 30. That is the one I carry concealed.

It is heavy but holds 10 rounds of .45acp. I figure if I have to use a firearm, I want the most stopping power / weight / concealibility combo I am comfortable with.

Now I will disagree with the distinquished Mr Marx on 1 point.

In the legality of using a deadly force, you are doing do to stop the threat against you or someone else. You do not shoot to kill, but to stop the threat.

If that requires 3, 4 or 10 rounds to stop them, so be it. If the person dies, well they die.

I agree with Bill W also. Since I began carrying, legally, I am very conscience of others and look to see if they are also carrying.

Very often I can spot plain clothes LE, DA investiagtors or others carrying weapons. Its usually IWB carry.

I do also carry IWB but have a jacket with inside pockets or a fanny pack I use sometimes.

Ok Tony, maybe "kill" was the wrong word... but "stop" and "kill".... in my book... mean about the same thing... if and when I may have to shoot to 'stop'.... I won't be aiming at their big toe.... and if I can hit what I am aiming at.... it will be dead center.... 'center mass' as they say... as in "dead" center.

The best way to "stop" a threat... is to "kill" it................

_________________
Bill Marx, Sr.
"FREE STATE BAIL BONDS"
"FREE STATE INVESTIGATIONS"
DCJS: 99-176979
Cell: 434-294-0222

"Endeavor to Persevere" "Lone Watie"

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that , comes from bad judgment" "Will Rogers"

This is the one I currently own. I have a .44 with a 4" barrel as well, however its even more bulky than this pig.

I think a smaller more compact to sub compact pistol in a .40 chamber would give me more of a "warm and fuzzy" feeling rather than my 9mm full size.

_________________
"Cage"
Recovery Agent
Bail License #40313820

In the CA CCW and guard firearm courses they stress that you used deadly force to stop the threat. Not to kill.

The theory is, if you are charged and face a court, the prosecution can use that against you because you indicated the intent to "kill" the perp and not to protect yourself by stopping the threat.

Otherwise you are on the offensive and not the defense.

Semantics maybe, but in the legal world it could make a big difference.

I was in fear for my life.

Scott

_________________
R.E. "Scott" MacLean III

"Leaders are like Eagles, you never see them in a flock, but one at a time"

Chesapeake Group Investigations, Inc.
Chesapeake Bail Bonds
877-574-0500
301-392-1100 (fax)
301-392-1900 (Office)

Yeah Scott, but would a "reasonable" person in the same situation feel as you did? The key word is reasonable....While I'm at it, You can't see a concealed weapon? Not only can you see it in some cases but if you get in a struggle, which was mentioned earlier you can damn sure feel it. I for one like this discussion, it might help all of us one day and at least we're giving some thought to it...By the way Bill, my instructor doen't own a Glock either and there are many reasons why. I own one only because my wife bought it for me on Christmas, I much prefer my.45. Damn I hope she doesn't see this...wait, she doesn't frequent this site

Take care

_________________
Bill Williams
Bail Agent
Eagle Bonding Services
Asheville NC 28804
828-777-8667
Lic # NC10013561
Lic # TN 2033018

Never be haughty to the humble
or humble to the haughty - Jefferson Davis

Not to contradict Bill M, but out here, to differentiate caliber size is to choose whether you want to "stop em" or "drop em". Drop em leans more to the kill side. If that don't work, pull out the Bowie knife and slice & dice em.

Instead of in fear for my life, I would use the ever so popular east coast hood approach, .... I didn't know .... I didn't know. ........................................

_________________
Yak .... H.B.I.C.
Riverside Enforcement
Hackensack NJ 07601
Ph. (201) 538 - 2947
Fax (201) 342 - 5405

FIRST OF ALL... KEN, DO NOT TRADE THAT PISTOL IN... it is nice, hold on to it...


Tony, your point is taken... what I tell you is "kill", what I tell the investigators... is what Scott said... "I was in fear of my life".... stop or kill.... dead is dead.... whatever.... as to the different calibers.... note the following:

.38, .38 special, .357 mag., .380, 9mm.... these are all basically .38 calibers...

for simplicity... the .38 is pretty much a short .357mag., the .380 is a short 9mm... the only real difference in them all is the amount of powder in the casing, which varies in length... and the weight and type of bullet seated on top...

As for the .40... it is basically a short 10mm...

In the overall scheme of things... the .45 and/or the .40 are probably a bit more powerful and channel a larger hole and a bit more ft./lb energy... the .357 is quite powerful... the .38 certainly less... but I would venture to say that the person you shoot will not particularly care if you shot him with a .45 or a .380... shot placement is much more important than the caliber of the bullet.... that is why training is the most important aspect of all this.

I would not go below a .38 caliber bullet.... .32 caliber has some nice rounds out there but I personally think it is a bit light.... although, you should note that the #1 assassin weapon in the world is a .22....

The brand, the caliber, the design, the bullet.... all personal preference and everyone will have a different idea of what is right.... as I said earlier.... "THERE IS NO SINGLE RIGHT ANSWER HERE, BUT THERE ARE MANY WRONG ONES"

_________________
Bill Marx, Sr.
"FREE STATE BAIL BONDS"
"FREE STATE INVESTIGATIONS"
DCJS: 99-176979
Cell: 434-294-0222

"Endeavor to Persevere" "Lone Watie"

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that , comes from bad judgment" "Will Rogers"

Bill M. as far as chambered rounds go, I have some very good working knowledge on self defense rounds.
Being prior service and disabled vet has taught me only one thing.

"When I in a combat scenario, you have a chance to get the "drop" on your target, then take that .5 second to get shot placement and deliver a round to a preferable point. The difference between that scenario and a personal protection scenario is that a combat scenario is proactive, a self defense scenario is reactive. I know by expirience that in a reactive situation, shot placement is the least of your worries."

Center mass is always a sure thing in a reactive scenario, I carried a 9mm para in the army. I know FOR A FACT that a full jacket 9mm round takes at least 4-5 rounds center mass to stop someone. Needless to say, I talked with my CO about decommisioning our berreta 92fs 9mm stock for a 1911 .45 surplus.

The reason I feel more comfortable with a .40 is that it is a compromise between the .45 and 9mm. While still compact, and easy to conceal.

_________________
"Cage"
Recovery Agent
Bail License #40313820