9's, .40's and .45's ..Oh My

Fellas,

Ill drop my two sense into the fire.

I agree with RWB. The more low-profile, less 'attractive', less obtrusive one is:
Will be the one who WONT have to draw their weapon. Now there are circumstances in which one will have to make that awful decision to do. Most of us that went though a good CCW class were told that yes, IN court do not say " I shot to kill" “I purposely shot him in the head so he would die a terrible death.” That could make you out to be an aggressive, pre-meditated monster. Key word- COULD. To say, "I shot to stop the threat; The person had the ABILITY to seriously harm or kill me (or other party), they had the OPORTUNITY to do so, and I felt for these reasons (Articulation) that my life was in JEOPARDY.

Now don’t quote me or what-not but its just again, my two sense. Now I see where you were going with (maybe) the "Shoot to kill" bit- as far as a court room questioning would go. There are thousands of reasons/ways to explain the situation and many views on it as well.

I am VERY VERY green to Bail Enforcement and while not having much of any experience to speak of; I would say again- Low impact, low stress appearance and professional/polite action might just be enough to diffuse the situation 90 percent of the time. People are just that- HUMANS- If your the one who knows your wanted, and some fellas with SWAT attire and an gross overweight of weaponry were to approach me, I’m going to be stressed, I’m going to be nervous- And quite frankly I'd try to make a run for it. The other way- Low-impact (the word is used again--sry) clothing and style of approach will turn the tables enough to at least put the guy your after, at ease to some extent.

If he pulls a weapon on you; the tables have turned. Its up to you to do what you have to do. To take a life and be prepared for it (whether by drawing your weapon to just 'scare' him or not) is something that is ones choice, something to think HEAVLY on and contemplate if its worth all the 'hassle.' (Legal fees, Stress, Marriage/family issues, loss of sleep, emotional break-down.. all of which, and more, that might happen)


This is a rant but ya know its just my opinion. Everyone has there own thoughts on the matter. Somewhat of a 'judgment' in which folks can be perceived is how they talk or explain the matter at hand- People can kind of tell what you might do in different situations.

Carrying a weapon is a personal choice. Mine, for my OWN DEFENSE-- Just that.. DEFENSE. I have already come up with my "What will I do" contingency plan years ago. I am confident in my self and my actions and that is how I will enter any hostile(potential) situation and it will hopefully keep me alive and coming home at night to my wife.

_________________
Bryan Wheeler
'WHEELZ" Fugitive Recovery
Bail Enforcement Agent
Montrose/Monument/Denver Colorado
COIBE CERT # 2009-1030
970-417-9482

I recieved my training from the Public Safety Training Institute in Jonesboro, Ga in 1988. I recieved advanced firearms training through the Ga. Police Academy in Forsyth, Ga. I also recieved Judgemental Use of Deadly Force certifications and recerts x 3 from the Ga. Police Academy. I was never taught to kill 'em so I don't have to use my brain on the defense stand in court later. I was trained to shoot center mass. Better target zone as well as most likely to stop the THREAT. Probably will kill them, but that's not why I would aim there. Also recieved officer survival certification at PSTI that teaches not to get close enough to hand them my weapon. Oh yeah, also recieved tactical shotgun certification through PSTI.

I was trained that the only true safety a firearm has is the big dummie the trigger finger is attached to. I really don't think I am a walking liability as you put it.

On a much nicer note, though. My weapon of choice above all else is the little weapon called the TAZER. Have used it a handful of times and it really works well. It changes the whole attitude of the situation greatly and makes for a wonderful conversation all the way to the jail house. lol.

I apologize if I did read your post wrong. It just jumped out at me like a ton of bricks. I guess it's the difference in Military vs. Civilian LE training. CAN ME AND YOU BE FRIENDS AGAIN? I think we might be good at working together on recoveries. If nothing else, if we ever meet, grab a cup of coffee. Take care and be safe.

_________________
Jim Elkins, Lead Agent
Global Recovery Agency, llc
Locust Grove (Atlanta) Georgia
(678) 759-0530
Bail Enforcement / Recovery
Specialized Repossessions
"NSF" Bad Check Recovery
Extraditions

Well I'm not a "Jesse James" either. Do you or anyone else honestly think that I want to go through the pure hell that follows the actual killing of a fellow human being ? The concerns and issues of the following criminal investigation and potential lawsuits are minor compared to the devastation that such an act causes everyone connected to the actors.

Like you say in your signature line, criminals are also human beings. Just because they made poor choices in thier lives doesn't mean that I or anyone else has the right be abusive, disrespectful, or harm them in any way unless they resist..and only then you follow the force continuim(sp ?) guidelines. You follow procedures and your training to legally force compliance in apprehending your subject.

The other thing that I constantly preach/teach is this: Defendants are commodities. Often times they are a bonding companies repeat customer. If, as a recovery agent, defendant's are constantly turned in bloodied and battered, not only will the bonding company potentially lose clients, most likely the Sheriff and Police Chiefs wont tolerate it.

When I first started in this business 9 yrs ago, some of the things my mentor drilled into me are the following:

1) You dont abuse defendants.
2) You don't steal from def's.
3) You don't rape def's.
4) You don't jack with thier drugs.
5) You treat people the way you want to be treated.
6) Def's do thier time and get out. The last thing any BEA wants or needs is to be worrying about if someone he previously surrendered is gunning for him.

Networking: Again, if you have read any of my posts, you will see that I try to help as much as I can. Admittedly, I do get irritated some times with lazy people refusing to use the search function and dig for answers to redundant questions. Hey, I'm human, ok ? But I think that over the years I have shown a willingness and desire to help serious professionals anyway I can. Having said that, if you think I may be of assistance at any point in the future, please don't hesitate to call upon me.

_________________
River City Associates
Decatur, Al. 35601

I, hands down, would rather have the 45 with 230gr Gold Dots. However, its not always practical. So, I also carry a 9.

I normally carry my 45 ACP in the winter time. Or when I think the SGHTF. Main reason being, Im wearing more clothes and so are the bad guys. I can conceal it easily and, no matter how thick the greasy leather jacket the BG has on, it will penetrate and do its job.

In the summer, Im dress lighter and so my little 9mm hides better. Also, everyone else is dressing lighter, so it should do the job well.

I am glad that we all can play nice while we exchange ideas. I coined the phrase "Low Impact" fugitive recovery, I published it and I own it. Scott Harrell has the rights to use that phraseology as he requested it from me years ago and it was granted, free of charge. Big Deal? It is a big deal, because none of these fugitives is worth not coming home from. Further, when one "Eagles Out" I see something else entirely that makes me proud. I would let either one of you have my six while I apprehended a fugitive. Why? Because you both have the mindset to see past the apprehension and are cognizant of the liability in all that we do. enough to discuss it here. I believe that a BEA with a gun in his hand is a one armed BEA. If your profile of the defendant is that he is another Genghis Khan, then complete your profile and investigation and present it to local LEO and document why their assistance is needed. If they refuse, you have a paper trail to assist in your defense if things go the way that you expected them to. (I don't know why, but the baddest a**es go easy, it is the young punks that want to whip the world)

The truth is spoken in few words..."I was in fear for my life", PERIOD end of sentence. While on the scene, you should verbalize how cold your hands were at the time of the shooting as opposed to having burning, itchy ears. That can and will spark another topic that will educate the newbies!

Love to all,

Scott

_________________
R.E. "Scott" MacLean III

"Leaders are like Eagles, you never see them in a flock, but one at a time"

Chesapeake Group Investigations, Inc.
Chesapeake Bail Bonds
877-574-0500
301-392-1100 (fax)
301-392-1900 (Office)

_________________
Heritage and Profession Together

J.G. Marshall
MARSHALL FUGITIVE SERVICE
Lic. # 2008-392
Moderator


Its the Irish in my mind that keeps me sane,
and the Irish in my heart that keeps me strong.

Marshal, I to have a little Springfield .40 XD subcompact... which is my carry, when I carry... it is usually close to me but often times I just don't carry?? Oh, I also sometimes carry a little stainless Ruger SP101 hammerless in .357 (but I ain't tough enough to shoot .357's in this little gun... I just load 38+P's...)

Here is a good article on your Springfield.... IMHO

http://firearmfun.blogspot.com/2008/10/ ... dm-40.html

_________________
Bill Marx, Sr.
"FREE STATE BAIL BONDS"
"FREE STATE INVESTIGATIONS"
DCJS: 99-176979
Cell: 434-294-0222

"Endeavor to Persevere" "Lone Watie"

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that , comes from bad judgment" "Will Rogers"

I've never owned a Springfield, of any model, but I've read and been told by SF owners that they're reliable and perform satisfactorily in the field.

Re: .40 Cal weapons. This is a good, intermediate round, somewhere between the 9mm and the .45. I carried one for years, a Glock model 22 .40cal. never let me down, never misfired, never jammed, etc. Just a great little all purpose weapon. My 1 complaint regarding Glocks is the lack of an external, manual safety. Now I know that you can have these features added on by a qualified gunsmith, but that's just more money. With what a Glock costs, plus the expense of the added safety, you could buy a NIB comparable quality weapon such as the Taurus, Springfield, Ruger, H&K, etc.

Another selling point for the .40's is that alot of women like this round because it's easy to handle...much like the 9mm. Alot of people can't handle the recoil of the .45's.

_________________
River City Associates
Decatur, Al. 35601

lol Bill,

You know as well as I do that the power of the .38+p's is almost equal to that of a .357 magnum.....

However, for those of you who are not familiar with 38+p's, you need to be aware that they CANNOT be used in ALL .38 CALIBRE WEAPONS.

This round is so "hot" that it will damage older model .38's or even newer ones not specifically designed to handle this round. The weapons manufacturers usually mark the weapon for this round, if not, then it should be in the owner's manual.
For example, if you fire a .38+p say in a 1960's to '70's model Smith & Wesson Model 10, Ruger Police Service Six, Colt .38, Rossi's, Charter Arms, or other "Saturday Night Specials" ( A really popular gun in the 70's to the 80's), you run the risk of blowing your weapon up as well as causing injury to yourself and those around you.

So before you buy this ammunition or handload it, make sure the weapon you intend to use it in is mechanically designed to handle it.

_________________
River City Associates
Decatur, Al. 35601

I guess the bottom line is to carry what makes you comfortable. As far as stopping power, one of the toughest men I ever knew ( cut pulpwood from the time he could walk good ) was shot and died before he hit the ground by a single .22 long rifle in his chest by his own brother. ( rough family life ) I have also recieved training on the case of a bank robber on a pcp trip who was still coming toward officers after recieving 33 rounds of 9mm and most of them in the "kill zone" ( used loosely here out of fear of rekindling the fire ).

Sorry for the snappy comeback on your initial post. We are practically neighbors and odds are will need each other sooner or later. Probably standing on the same front porch together someday. The coffee is on me when we leave the jail. Just don't spill any on my bondsman off bond form. I am picky about my paperwork also !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's another good kickoff subject. Who likes TAZERS? Who has used them on bail recovery? Here we go again !

Have a great weekend and please stay safe. We can find another skip or even job. Our kids can't find another Mom or Dad.

_________________
Jim Elkins, Lead Agent
Global Recovery Agency, llc
Locust Grove (Atlanta) Georgia
(678) 759-0530
Bail Enforcement / Recovery
Specialized Repossessions
"NSF" Bad Check Recovery
Extraditions