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 Post subject: Re: Showing thier gun
 Post Posted: Wed 12 Jan 2011 20:29 
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Does it go something like;

This is my rifle,
This is my gun.
This is for fighting,
and this is for fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Showing thier gun
 Post Posted: Sun 16 Jan 2011 13:56 
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vez wrote:
Hi I’m new to this site and I was curious about the rules and laws under witch a bounty hunter has to follow. Can a bond agent enter a home and take a fugitive with guns drawn? Can they brandish their weapon? I live in Ohio


I know I am gunna catch hell from some and I wont respond to any haters to defend my opinion because the Texas Penal code is the only authority I need to worry about, but I firmly believe in some cases the threat of deadly force not the use of it will prevent a particularly dangerous defendant from escalating his/her own behavior. Most of the time even with these folks a holstered Taser is more effective but once in a while you just feel like you better be prepared. FYI - I have 3 different licenses to carry a weapon other than the Castle Doctrine act here in Texas.

Here is the penal code in Texas regarding Threats as Justifiable force. I have only felt it necessary to draw a weapon on a defendant on two occasions both were defendants known to carry weapons who had been previously convicted of violent crimes. The threat of deadly force was lawful and justified for the reasons listed below. I tried to bold the applicable sections but you have to understand the entire section. In both cases the defendants ended up being armed.

It was reasonable to believe that given the criminal history of the individuals it was immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm and was reasonably necessary to make a lawful arrest. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A POLICE OFFICER TO MAKE A LAWFUL ARREST IN TEXAS.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
§ 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter.

For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as
long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the
use of deadly force.


Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.

SUBCHAPTER B. JUSTIFICATION GENERALLY

Sec. 9.21. PUBLIC DUTY. (a) Except as qualified by Subsections (b) and (c), conduct is justified if the actor reasonably believes the conduct is required or authorized by law, by the judgment or order of a competent court or other governmental tribunal, or in the execution of legal process.

(b) The other sections of this chapter control when force is used against a person to protect persons (Subchapter C), to protect property (Subchapter D), for law enforcement (Subchapter E), or by virtue of a special relationship (Subchapter F).

(c) The use of deadly force is not justified under this section unless the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is specifically required by statute or unless it occurs in the lawful conduct of war. If deadly force is so justified, there is no duty to retreat before using it.

(d) The justification afforded by this section is available if the actor reasonably believes:

(1) the court or governmental tribunal has jurisdiction or the process is lawful, even though the court or governmental tribunal lacks jurisdiction or the process is unlawful; or

(2) his conduct is required or authorized to assist a public servant in the performance of his official duty, even though the servant exceeds his lawful authority.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.


Sec. 9.22. NECESSITY. Conduct is justified if:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm;

(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law proscribing the conduct; and

(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994

SUBCHAPTER E. LAW ENFORCEMENT


c. 9.51. ARREST AND SEARCH. (a) A peace officer, or a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to make or assist in making an arrest or search, or to prevent or assist in preventing escape after arrest, if:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the arrest or search is lawful or, if the arrest or search is made under a warrant, he reasonably believes the warrant is valid; and

(2) before using force, the actor manifests his purpose to arrest or search and identifies himself as a peace officer or as one acting at a peace officer's direction, unless he reasonably believes his purpose and identity are already known by or cannot reasonably be made known to the person to be arrested.

(b) A person other than a peace officer (or one acting at his direction) is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to make or assist in making a lawful arrest, or to prevent or assist in preventing escape after lawful arrest if, before using force, the actor manifests his purpose to and the reason for the arrest or reasonably believes his purpose and the reason are already known by or cannot reasonably be made known to the person to be arrested.

(c) A peace officer is justified in using deadly force against another when and to the degree the peace officer reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary to make an arrest, or to prevent escape after arrest, if the use of force would have been justified under Subsection (a) and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct for which arrest is authorized included the use or attempted use of deadly force; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes there is a substantial risk that the person to be arrested will cause death or serious bodily injury to the actor or another if the arrest is delayed.

(d) A person other than a peace officer acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction is justified in using deadly force against another when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary to make a lawful arrest, or to prevent escape after a lawful arrest, if the use of force would have been justified under Subsection (b) and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the felony or offense against the public peace for which arrest is authorized included the use or attempted use of deadly force; or

(2) the actor reasonably believes there is a substantial risk that the person to be arrested will cause death or serious bodily injury to another if the arrest is delayed.

(e) There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force justified by Subsection (c) or (d).

(f) Nothing in this section relating to the actor's manifestation of purpose or identity shall be construed as conflicting with any other law relating to the issuance, service, and execution of an arrest or search warrant either under the laws of this state or the United States.

(g) Deadly force may only be used under the circumstances enumerated in Subsections (c) and (d).

_________________
Charlie Deckert
Texas Bounty Hunters - BFA/Owner

Sentry Security & Investigations L.P. - Vice President
Curently Licensed in Texas as;
Private Investigator TXLC A16879
Level III Commissioned Security Officer TXLC C11454
Level IV Personal Protection Officer TXLC C11454
Texas Issued Concealed Handgun License


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 Post subject: Re: Showing thier gun
 Post Posted: Sun 16 Jan 2011 14:01 
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Quote:
I have only felt it necessary to draw a weapon on a defendant on two occasions both were defendants known to carry weapons who had been previously convicted of violent crimes. Charlie D.


That statement alone would warrant, in my eyes, entering arms drawn . . . and vests being worn.

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Do not consider anything for your interest which makes you break your word, quit your modesty, or inclines you to any practice which will not bear the light, or look the world in the face .... Marcus Antonius

I AM Some Folks "KARMA" and A MODERATOR @ FRN


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 Post subject: Re: Showing thier gun
 Post Posted: Sun 16 Jan 2011 14:15 
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LuVonda wrote:
Quote:
I have only felt it necessary to draw a weapon on a defendant on two occasions both were defendants known to carry weapons who had been previously convicted of violent crimes. Charlie D.


That statement alone would warrant, in my eyes, entering arms drawn . . . and vests being worn.



Yes always wear a vest... if you carry a weapon you need to be wearing a vest capable of protecting yourself from your own weapon.

_________________
Charlie Deckert
Texas Bounty Hunters - BFA/Owner

Sentry Security & Investigations L.P. - Vice President
Curently Licensed in Texas as;
Private Investigator TXLC A16879
Level III Commissioned Security Officer TXLC C11454
Level IV Personal Protection Officer TXLC C11454
Texas Issued Concealed Handgun License


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 Post subject: Re: Showing thier gun
 Post Posted: Tue 18 Jan 2011 11:25 
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Charlie Deckert wrote:
vez wrote:
Hi I’m new to this site and I was curious about the rules and laws under witch a bounty hunter has to follow. Can a bond agent enter a home and take a fugitive with guns drawn? Can they brandish their weapon? I live in Ohio


I know I am gunna catch hell from some and I wont respond to any haters to defend my opinion because the Texas Penal code is the only authority I need to worry about, but I firmly believe in some cases the threat of deadly force not the use of it will prevent a particularly dangerous defendant from escalating his/her own behavior. Most of the time even with these folks a holstered Taser is more effective but once in a while you just feel like you better be prepared. FYI - I have 3 different licenses to carry a weapon other than the Castle Doctrine act here in Texas.

Here is the penal code in Texas regarding Threats as Justifiable force. I have only felt it necessary to draw a weapon on a defendant on two occasions both were defendants known to carry weapons who had been previously convicted of violent crimes. The threat of deadly force was lawful and justified for the reasons listed below. I tried to bold the applicable sections but you have to understand the entire section. In both cases the defendants ended up being armed.

It was reasonable to believe that given the criminal history of the individuals it was immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm and was reasonably necessary to make a lawful arrest. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A POLICE OFFICER TO MAKE A LAWFUL ARREST IN TEXAS.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
§ 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter.

For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as
long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the
use of deadly force.


Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.

SUBCHAPTER B. JUSTIFICATION GENERALLY

Sec. 9.21. PUBLIC DUTY. (a) Except as qualified by Subsections (b) and (c), conduct is justified if the actor reasonably believes the conduct is required or authorized by law, by the judgment or order of a competent court or other governmental tribunal, or in the execution of legal process.

(b) The other sections of this chapter control when force is used against a person to protect persons (Subchapter C), to protect property (Subchapter D), for law enforcement (Subchapter E), or by virtue of a special relationship (Subchapter F).

(c) The use of deadly force is not justified under this section unless the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is specifically required by statute or unless it occurs in the lawful conduct of war. If deadly force is so justified, there is no duty to retreat before using it.

(d) The justification afforded by this section is available if the actor reasonably believes:

(1) the court or governmental tribunal has jurisdiction or the process is lawful, even though the court or governmental tribunal lacks jurisdiction or the process is unlawful; or

(2) his conduct is required or authorized to assist a public servant in the performance of his official duty, even though the servant exceeds his lawful authority.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.


Sec. 9.22. NECESSITY. Conduct is justified if:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm;

(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law proscribing the conduct; and

(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994

SUBCHAPTER E. LAW ENFORCEMENT


c. 9.51. ARREST AND SEARCH. (a) A peace officer, or a person acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction, is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to make or assist in making an arrest or search, or to prevent or assist in preventing escape after arrest, if:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the arrest or search is lawful or, if the arrest or search is made under a warrant, he reasonably believes the warrant is valid; and

(2) before using force, the actor manifests his purpose to arrest or search and identifies himself as a peace officer or as one acting at a peace officer's direction, unless he reasonably believes his purpose and identity are already known by or cannot reasonably be made known to the person to be arrested.

(b) A person other than a peace officer (or one acting at his direction) is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to make or assist in making a lawful arrest, or to prevent or assist in preventing escape after lawful arrest if, before using force, the actor manifests his purpose to and the reason for the arrest or reasonably believes his purpose and the reason are already known by or cannot reasonably be made known to the person to be arrested.

(c) A peace officer is justified in using deadly force against another when and to the degree the peace officer reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary to make an arrest, or to prevent escape after arrest, if the use of force would have been justified under Subsection (a) and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct for which arrest is authorized included the use or attempted use of deadly force; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes there is a substantial risk that the person to be arrested will cause death or serious bodily injury to the actor or another if the arrest is delayed.

(d) A person other than a peace officer acting in a peace officer's presence and at his direction is justified in using deadly force against another when and to the degree the person reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary to make a lawful arrest, or to prevent escape after a lawful arrest, if the use of force would have been justified under Subsection (b) and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the felony or offense against the public peace for which arrest is authorized included the use or attempted use of deadly force; or

(2) the actor reasonably believes there is a substantial risk that the person to be arrested will cause death or serious bodily injury to another if the arrest is delayed.

(e) There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force justified by Subsection (c) or (d).

(f) Nothing in this section relating to the actor's manifestation of purpose or identity shall be construed as conflicting with any other law relating to the issuance, service, and execution of an arrest or search warrant either under the laws of this state or the United States.

(g) Deadly force may only be used under the circumstances enumerated in Subsections (c) and (d).


I agree with you and I wish that Florida had some similar statutes.

_________________
Eric Vigil
Monroe County Bail Bonds
10 High Point Road
Suite A
Plantation Key, FL 33070
Office 305-451-2593
Cell 305-766-1710


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 Post subject: Re: Showing thier gun
 Post Posted: Tue 18 Jan 2011 11:48 
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To ALL Newcomers to this site . . . It is not necessary to copy complete posts in order to acknowledge to whom one is directing a post.

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Do not consider anything for your interest which makes you break your word, quit your modesty, or inclines you to any practice which will not bear the light, or look the world in the face .... Marcus Antonius

I AM Some Folks "KARMA" and A MODERATOR @ FRN


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 Post subject: Re: Showing thier gun
 Post Posted: Tue 18 Jan 2011 19:42 
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LuVonda is correct... here is an easy way to respond to a particular post...

Quote:
Charlie Deckert wrote:
vez wrote:

<<<§ 9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter.

For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death>>> deleted for clarity....


then type your response... it saves a lot of un necessary space... thanks...

_________________
Bill Marx, Sr.
"FREE STATE BAIL BONDS"
"FREE STATE INVESTIGATIONS"

DCJS: 99-176979
Cell: 434-294-0222

"Endeavor to Persevere" "Lone Watie"

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that , comes from bad judgment" "Will Rogers"


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 Post subject: Re: Showing thier gun
 Post Posted: Fri 10 Jun 2011 16:45 
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First, why are you saving unnecessary space?? LOL. Second, I thought it appropriate to revisit "licking in doors" right before Vegas. :twisted: :wink:

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Founding member, NABBI (Nat'l Assoc. of Bail Bond Inv.)
Ca. Bail Agent Lic#1845795
Owner/Operator, Thomas Duprey Bail Bonds
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 Post subject: Re: Showing thier gun
 Post Posted: Fri 10 Jun 2011 18:21 
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Tom, oh never mind, this is going to be a memorable event!

Scott

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"Leaders are like Eagles, you never see them in a flock, but one at a time"

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 Post subject: Re: Showing thier gun
 Post Posted: Sat 11 Jun 2011 08:00 
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AWOBB wrote:
First Off, the State of Ohio does not allow BOUNTY HUNTERS...........PERIOD.. If you use that term here, you will be arrested. You have to be licensed as a Surety Bail Bond Agent or a PI to do any kind of arrest for bail jumpers. A bail bondsmen in the Cleveland, Ohio area already lost his license for using a non-license person to do his pick-ups. Good for him.... :mrgreen:

The Dept. of Insurance is not putting up with this crap anyone, Thank God!


Just for clarity, and not trying to dispute anything here, but several months back, I picked up a defendant out of Colombus, OH and had no issues whatsoever form law enforcement. They were wel aware of my intentions in the state as well as what day and time I was going to be there. Maybe it was because I used the term Bail Enforcement Agent, rather than Bounty Hunter. Heck, they were even standing by just outside the apartment complex in case I needed help. I live in an unregulated state, and delivered him back to a regulated state. Maybe, I was just lucky that time or something, not sure. But I asked many questions and had all of them answered prior to me heading out there. I will have to do some more checking as I conveniently have received another case to locate and return from Ohio to Washington... which is sadly interfering with my Vegas time to meet the rest of you all. I have family out there, so I couldn't justify the motel... good thing I didn't pay for one, I would not have been able to enjoy it.

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Timothy Soule
Soule & Associates Investigations
Sheridan, WY
307-763-3134

"As Professional Bail Enforcement Agents, we secure the Risk of the Surety by lawfully protecting the interest of not only the safety and security of our Clients and their Surety Agencies, but their Indemnitors and Defendants as well."


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