Attitude, Going In!

I am going to LOVE my CE Class this year

Not sure how it works for you Cowboys over there in Colorado, PARDNER . . . but in my neck of the woods an "arrest" by a Citizen can be carried out, in the event of a FELONY and that is ONLY to the point of securing the party til an actual LE can arrive.

I am going to ask for the 4th time . . . who is your Mentor.

_________________


Do not consider anything for your interest which makes you break your word, quit your modesty, or inclines you to any practice which will not bear the light, or look the world in the face .... Marcus Antonius

I AM Some Folks "KARMA" and A MODERATOR @ FRN

Wasn't going to chime in on this one,but.....I along with others here have seen Bail Agents go in strong on a skip when it really wasn't required. Sometimes going in strong will land you in jail. I won't work with anybody or hire anybody that feels they must go in strong because there "might" be a problem.

I've apprehended a skip or three and have never went in with an attitude other than body language and an absolute mindset that the skip is coming with me. The skip can see really quickly that we aren't playing, with nothing more, than the way we carry ourselves.

If I find myself really scared, I ain't goin....at that time. Will wait and get him on my terms, when he least expects it.

I come from a long line of cops in my family and all will tell you that being relaxed is the best way to go. Your reaction time is better, you think more clearly your heart isn't jumping out of your chest and you're less likely to make bad decisions.

One poster stated he was scared on every recovery. I think this man's definition of scared is different than what most think of when the word scared is used. In fact I know it is.

We are not law enforcement, we don't have to go into a situation unless we choose. So if I'm truly scared I'll wait for another day all the while knowing the apprehension is coming, just not right now.

The longer you're here the more you'll understand the term "low impact" and the man that owns that term and the experience he has under his belt.

Had a few BEA's come to SC to apprehend a skip. Went in strong, badges, guns etc. They were so "scared" they hit the wrong house.

A year later another Bail Agent was given the case and he was skip traced, apprehended and locked up in two days.

In closing, I mean no disrespect to anyone, you do it your way. but this work isn't all that hard when done correctly, except of course the skip tracing, driving, no sleep........

Take care

_________________
Bill Williams
Bail Agent
Eagle Bonding Services
Asheville NC 28804
828-777-8667
Lic # NC10013561
Lic # TN 2033018

Never be haughty to the humble
or humble to the haughty - Jefferson Davis

I will say that I wouldn't call it being scared, rather that my Spidey Senses are heighten and my adrenaline gets pumping.

However, at least from what I see of myself, I appear calm.

The best example I can give is not of an "arrest" or skip pickup, it was the fight with the homeless guy in front of my office.

Even though he pulled a 6 inch knife and was trying his best to filet me, I remained calm and was able to defend myself without getting cut. I did get scratches from rolling on the ground with him and he did try to bite me.

Didn't know I was hyped up until the paramedics check my BP and it was 4 times normal.

Howdy Again!
And I am gonna stand my ground that it seems totally unethical to me to post his name or any other info about him on a pulic forum without his consent. I'd figure you'd understand that better than most folks being a moderator and all.

I will respect his privacy until, and unless, he tells me different.

Stay Safe,
Mel

_________________
Mel Edington, Fugitive Recovery Agent
CDOI 2011-117
Colorado Private Investigator,
DORA PI10000052
Athame Investigations,
division of Colorado Bounty Hunter LLC
Aurora, Colorado
303-343-7111 Office
303-319-1077 Cell
303-366-3189 Fax

Available for Fugitive Recovery, Process Service, Investigation and Legal Courier Service.

If I may without offending anyone, jump in.

In this business, and I hope someday it can be officially recognized as a profession, we get many people who join this and other forums. We do that to network, learn and just make new friends.

So, new people join every day it seems. They profess to have much experience and knowledge or none at all. It is hard sometimes to verify the claims made by some if we don't have someone that is already known to us here that can vouch for them.

I have been very fortunate to have met or at least talked with many members on this and other forums. Some I know only through "conversations" on the forums but, I know they are "legit" by their association with those that I personally know.

Personally, I don't see why your "mentor" would not want the opportunity to network with the people on this forum or others. We are always interested in knowing professional agents in every area of the country.

In my opinion, if he is legit and good at his trade, he would only benefit from being a part of this group.

Howdy Amigo!
It was my utmost pleasure to chat with you this evening. I do however apologize for roping you in for better than 38 minutes, especially when you weren't expecting a telephonic ambush this evening.

As I said on the phone, you seem a real reasonable sort of person, and I'm proud to make your acquaintence, even if only via phone. I'd be gratified if you'd regard me as a new friend, and I've already spoken to the wife about making that trip to the national convention come spring.

The FRA training I got, but didn't have any materials at hand (little did you know that most of the conversation took place on my end from a King Soopers parking lot!!!) but if you are interested in seeing their website, here it is:
http://www.bailtraining.com/index.cfm

After taking the course, I got my fingerprints taken by Aurora Police Department and hauled them over to CBI (Colorado Bureau of Investigation) to get background checked out. Obviously I passed that particular patch of brambles and got my certification shortly afterward. The man who runs that program, and I told you his name as you may recall, is a bondsman across town and I have spent some time at his office. Once I got my certification, I decided it would be to my benefit to get attached to a mentor who could show me some ropes. He put my name on his white board of things to cope with, and had to endure my calls almost daily to ask what progress was taking hold. Finally he directed me to contact a veteran bounty hunter hereabouts who has 25 years of experience in the business. I've been riding with him and a few of his folks ever since. He is a terrific guy, and I am blessed to have him as my mentor.

But I digress, as often happens. It was my pleasure to talk with you, and I'll be hoping to make that convention in the spring. Better still, I hope to meet you there, and will go so far as to buy the first round of whatever suits your fancy! I'll stick to coffee or a soda. Haven't taken a drink of alcohol since September 1st of 1989. Had issues, wrangled with same, long story.

If I ain't accomplished anything else with this forum, at least I hope to count you among my friends!

Tip of the Stetson and Blessings to you!
Mel

_________________
Mel Edington, Fugitive Recovery Agent
CDOI 2011-117
Colorado Private Investigator,
DORA PI10000052
Athame Investigations,
division of Colorado Bounty Hunter LLC
Aurora, Colorado
303-343-7111 Office
303-319-1077 Cell
303-366-3189 Fax

Available for Fugitive Recovery, Process Service, Investigation and Legal Courier Service.

Howdy Again!
Okay, I said I'd cover this in great detail after work. Sorry it is a bit tardy!

First, whether a surety or his agent can effect an 'arrest':

Taylor v. Taintor:
When bail is given, the principal is regarded as delivered to the custody of his sureties. Their dominion is a continuance of the original imprisonment. Whenever they choose to do so, they may seize him and deliver him up in their discharge; and if that cannot be done at once, they may imprison him until it can be done. They may exercise their rights in person or by agent. They may pursue him into another State; may arrest him on the Sabbath; and, if necessary, may break and enter his house for that purpose. The seizure is not made by virtue of new process. None is needed. It is likened to the rearrest by the sheriff of an escaping prisoner.
-----------------------------------
Okay, so what did they know? Them hombres were only the justices of the United States Supreme Court. Let's check another source.

Regarding our authority to apprehend bail-secured fugitives: a bail bondsman has the established legal right to arrest and reincarcerate any client of his (that he has bailed out of jail) if they have broken any part of their agreement (contract), not showing up for court is ALWAYS a part of that agreement. This was established by the Supreme Court in 1873 in, the now famous case, Taylor vs. Taintor
The bail bondsman may, through a power of attorney, assign this power to another person for the purposes of enforcing this contract. Through this assignment of his power to a bail enforcement agent, we derive the same authority over the defendant. Some sates have limited the scope of who may receive this authority by requiring licensing or registration with the state. Each state regulates bail enforcement differently; some state have outlawed the bail bond industry- WI, OR, IL and KY, about 22 states require licensing and the remainder of the states do not regulate the industry at all.
MA does not require or issue licenses or even regulate the bail recovery industry. Badges are available via many online equipment suppliers.
Warmest Regards,
L. Scott Harrell
CompassPoint Investigations
--------------------
Yeah, but what does he know anyway? He's quoting them same yahoos that handed down the decision in Taylor v. Taintor. He must his boots on the wrong feet!

Probably other courts all across America would set the matter right, don'cha think?
-------
Generally, "the common-law right of recapture is (only) limited by the reasonable means necessary to effect the arrest." (Lopez v. Cotter (10th Cir. 1989) 875 F.2nd 273, 277.)

Bounty hunters "enjoy extraordinary powers to capture and use force" in tracking down and arresting fugitives. (Kear v. Hilton (4th Cir. 1983) 699 F.2nd 181, 182.)

Other provisions provide for the arrest of a bail jumper by the bounty hunter when the bounty hunter's authority is in writing upon a certified copy of either the undertaking of bail or the certificate of a bail deposited with the court. (P.C. §§ 1300, 1301)

Also, bounty hunters are to comply with all other arrest statutes, including the statutory "knock and notice" requirements (P.C. § 1299.09), and not be in violation of any firearms or other weapons laws. (P.C. § 1299.10)
----------------------------
Shucks... the herd is about ready to stampede through the hallowed halls of jurisprudence Them pesky district courts must be in cahoots with the SCOTUS. (I always liked that word. It sounds somehow shady!)

Well... let's check out the language of various state laws that seem bent and determined to use that word... arrest! I'm only quoting specific state laws that employ the word 'arrest' in relation to Sureties or bounty hunters. Seems there are plenty of cowboys beyond the borders of Colorado!
-----------------
Alabama
Alabama gives wide latitude to bondsmen to arrest their principals. (Code of Alabama 15-13-62) The bondsman can authorize another to apprehend the fugitive by endorsing a certified copy of the undertaking (15-13-117). The bondsman or his agent can pursue the principal anywhere in the state, must possess a certified copy of the bond, must clearly identify himself and his purpose, and can enter a dwelling for this purpose. The principal has to be surrendered to the sheriff of the county of jurisdiction. (15-13-63). An out of state bondsman shall have a certified copy of the undertaking when apprehending the principal (15-13-124). UCEA
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Arkansas
Nobody can represent himself as a bounty hunter or bail recovery agent in Arkansas. Only a licensed private investigator, a person under his direct supervision, a licensed bondsman from the state where the bond was issued, and sworn peace officers can arrest bail fugitives.
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Arizona
License required. A surety may empower a bail recovery agent to arrest a defendant (ARSA 20-282.10).
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California
License required. In September 1999, A 243, the Bail Fugitive Recovery Persons Act, was passed which added section 1299 to the Penal Code. This law provides for the regulation of bail fugitive recovery persons, defined as a person given written authorization by a bail or depositor of bail and contracted to investigate, surveil, locate, and arrest a bail fugitive and any person employed to assist the bail or depositor of bail to do same.
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Colorado
A surety with a certified copy of the bond may apprehend the defendant. (CRSA 16-4-108) A surety is prohibited from contracting with a bail recovery person, guilty of a felony within the last 15 years, or who has not been trained in bail recovery practices. A recovery agent must submit fingerprints to the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, undergo a background check (12-17-105.5), and receive verification of a certificate of completion of the Peace Office Standards and Training Board (POST) bail recovery course. Bail recovery personnel must also have fingerprints on file with local police or sheriff. (12-7-101 et seq.), UCEA
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Georgia
As of 01 July 1999, in Georgia, arresting agent must be at least 25, possess a Georgia firearms permit (if carrying), be a US citizen, if out of state from a state that has no licensing/training requirements
--------------
Iowa
License required. Bounty hunters must be licensed and notify local police of a defendant’s location before making an arrest. (IA CODE 80A.3).
In Iowa, the surety, subject to the limitations of IA CODE 80A, may at any time arrest the defendant at any place in the state and by written authority on a certified copy of the undertaking may empower any person of suitable age and discretion to do so. (IA CODE 811. UCEA
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Idaho
The surety may at any time arrest the defendant at any place in Idaho (IS 8-111) and by written authority on a certified copy of the undertaking may empower any person of suitable age and discretion to do so. (19-2925) UCEA
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Indiana
License required. A surety, or a person authorized by him with a certified copy of the undertaking, may apprehend a principal in any county in the state (IC 35-1-22-7). Recovery agents must be licensed (IC 27-10-3-1(1997).
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Kansas
The surety , or a person authorized by the surety, may arrest the defendant to be delivered to the county in which he is charged. (KS 22-2809) UCEA
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Kentucky
Bounty hunters banned. No bail bondsman or his agent can arrest, detain, and remove from the state a bail fugitive unless a warrant has been issued for the defendant (KRS 440.270(2)).
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Michigan
The surety may arrest the principal and is entitled to the assistance of law enforcement (MCL 765.26). UCEA
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Minnesota
The surety has the authority and right to arrest the principal (MS 625.18), or cause him to be arrested. He must give notice to the sheriff before apprehension (629.63). UCEA
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Missouri
The surety or any person authorized by him may with a copy of the recognizance apprehend the principal in any county of the state. (MRS Title 37, Ch. 544.600) UCEA does not apply in Missouri.
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Mississippi
License required. Bail enforcement agents must be licensed and be at least 21 years of age, a resident of MS for at least one year, and have no felony record (MS Code 83-39-3). A surety may before final judgement arrest the principal anywhere or authorize another to do so. (MS Code 99-5-27) A surety, by presenting a certified copy of the bond, can request law enforcement to arrest the principal. The surety must accompany the officer to receive the principal. (99-5-29) UCEA
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Montana
The surety may at any time arrest the defendant or by written authority on a certified copy of the undertaking empower any person of suitable age and discretion to do it. (MCA, 46-9-205 & 510) UCEA
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North Carolina
Free lance bounty hunters banned. The surety may take the principal into custody at any time or place or by written authority on a certified copy of the undertaking request any judicial officer to arrest the principal (NCGS Ch 85C-7) ((Insurance) 58-71-25&30, 1-434) or by written authority on a certified copy of the undertaking empower any person over 21 to do so.
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North Dakota
A surety may arrest the defendant before the forfeiture of the undertaking, or by written authority on a certified copy of the undertaking, empower a peace officer to make the arrest. (NDCC( Insurance) 26.1-26.6-07) (29-08-20) (NDR Crim. Proc., Rule 46) UCEA
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New Jersey
Surety can make a civil arrest of the defendant but the defendant must have the same rights and protections as if arrested on a criminal charge.
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New Mexico
The surety may at any time apprehend the defendant and return him to the sheriff of the county of jurisdiction along with a certified copy of the order admitting the defendant to bail and a certified copy of the bond. (NMSA 31-3-3) The bondsman’s authority to arrest a principal does not absolve him of criminal responsibility for armed, unauthorized forcible entry into a third party’s residence. (NMSA 31-4-14) UCEA
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Nevada
After making an arrest, the bail enforcement agent must notify the local law enforcement agency of the jurisdiction in which the defendant was apprehended of his identity, the identity of the defendant, and where the defendant is being taken to be surrendered. Before forcibly entering an inhabited dwelling, a bail enforcement agent must notify local law enforcement (NRS 697-325). UCEA
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Ohio
The surety may at anytime or place arrest the defendant or by written authority on a certified copy of the bond empower any person of suitable age and discretion to do so ( ORSA 2713-22) UCEA
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Oklahoma
A surety may at any time and place in the state arrest his principal, or by written authority on a certified copy of the undertaking, empower another of suitable age and discretion to do so. (OK S, Title 39.1328 & 1329) (Crim. Proc. 1107).
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Oregon
Bounty hunters banned. Oregon is another state outlawing commercial bail. Defendant can only be released from custody on conditional release, deposit bond, or his own recognizance (i.e., no surety bonds). Arrest by a private party is regulated by ORS 133.225.
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Pennsylvania
The surety upon receiving a bail piece from the court may apprehend the defendant wherever and whenever found (Rules of Crim. Proc. Ch 4016). A bondsman has a right to pursue and arrest the principal in another state. (Key#80 of Penn Digest 2d CA Pa 1971) UCEA
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South Carolina
Free lance bounty hunters banned. The surety may at any time and place arrest the principal, or by written authority of a certified copy of the undertaking, empower anyone of suitable age and discretion to do so. (South Carolina Code of laws, Civil Remedies and Procedures 15-17-740) ((Insurance) 38-53-50 & 60) UCEA does not apply in South Carolina.
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South Dakota
Licence required. A surety may arrest a defendant who violates the conditions of his release (SDCL 23A-43-29) ((Insurance) 58-22-1 thru 48). A bail runner must be licensed, and have no felony record (SDCL 58-22-12, 58-22-13) must submit fingerprints (58-22-16) and must pass a written examination. A bond agent must notify the state of the runners they employ (SDCL 58-22-27, 58-22-52).
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Tennessee
A bounty hunter cannot have a criminal record, must notify the local police of defendant’s location, and present to the police a copy of the warrant, a copy of the bond, and evidence that the bounty hunter has been hired by the bond agent. (TC 40-11-3). The surety may arrest the defendant on a certified copy of the undertaking in any place in the state and by written authority on such a copy empower another to make the arrest (TC 40-11-133) The surety is also entitled to the assistance of the sheriff of any county to make the arrest. The certified copy of the undertaking must be exhibited to the principal upon arrest. (40-11-134) UCEA
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Texas
The surety can apprehend and surrender the accused at any time. (TS 17.16 (282)(330)(318) also the surety can obtain a warrant to arrest the principal which warrant can be acted upon by a peace officer, security officer, or private investigator licensed in Texas (17.19).
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Utah
Bail enforcement agents shall identify themselves as such (53-11-122) and not wear law enforcement-like apparel or badges (53-11-121). They shall notify local law enforcement not less than 24 hours before action is taken, when an occupied structure is to entered for arrest, and must carry written documentation as a cause of action (53-11-123).
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Virginia
A surety may at any time arrest his principal and surrender him to the court in question. (Code of Virginia 19.2-149) UCEA
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Vermont
Also, a surety may arrest and surrender his principal at any time either personally or by agent (Ch 229, Sec. 7562) UCEA
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Wisconsin
The surety may arrest the principal or by written authority on a certified copy of the bond, empower another to do so. (WS 818.21)(969.14)
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West Virginia
License required. All "bail bond enforcers" must register with the West Virginia state police. <snip>
(2) arrest a defendant without written authorization from the bondsman,
WV H 4481
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Wyoming
The surety may arrest the principal or by written authority on a certified copy of the bond, empower another to do so. (Rules of Crim. Proc., Rule 46) UCEA
-----------------------------------------------------------------

But you're probably right. Only a police officer can make an arrest. Them, and maybe a few cowboys on the side too!

Just Funnin', with my warped sense of humor!
Mel

_________________
Mel Edington, Fugitive Recovery Agent
CDOI 2011-117
Colorado Private Investigator,
DORA PI10000052
Athame Investigations,
division of Colorado Bounty Hunter LLC
Aurora, Colorado
303-343-7111 Office
303-319-1077 Cell
303-366-3189 Fax

Available for Fugitive Recovery, Process Service, Investigation and Legal Courier Service.

Really . . . I have been doing this job since 11Sept2000 . . .

Hopefully in your reading you will find "Test Cases" in exercised Taylor V Taintor . . .
When you have been in this business for more than a minute please feel to direct me . . . Until then I suggest you do some reading here.




Do not know where you got your info but it is Incorrect. Y0u may get the correct wording of the Statute by following this link viewtopic.php?f=30&t=10302

_________________


Do not consider anything for your interest which makes you break your word, quit your modesty, or inclines you to any practice which will not bear the light, or look the world in the face .... Marcus Antonius

I AM Some Folks "KARMA" and A MODERATOR @ FRN

My goodness, I take a hiatus and come back ... it shore did get interesting.

It is all semantics really. Here in Minnesota we place them under arrest as per statute. Whether you want to call it a citizens arrest or a bondsman arrest.. it matters not to me.

I was once told that the difference between custody and arrest in some areas depends on where they are cuffed.

Hands in Back = arrest

Hands in Front = custody

But I digress...

Many years ago I worked security in Michigan.. this was multiple decades ago and laws do change. But, I took a class on Security procedures and laws - at that time there was a little known statute in the State Law that stated that while on duty, a private security officer was a "reserve State Police officer" and therefore - while on duty only - were allowed to make arrests and detain persons when necessary.

Before getting all excited - the instructor told us that their was a kicker. If a Licensed police officer was at the scene of any crime or emergency situation, as a "reserve State Police officer" you were required to provide assistance and back up to the police officer or you faced fines and or imprisonment. Simply put, if the officer responded and needed an extra body or two for back up and he told you to come along.. you had to go.

Once when responding to a B&E in progress (Burglar Alarm company) - I unlocked the building door and stepped aside to allow the cops to enter. One cop grabbed me and said, you too pal. (of course he was armed, had a vest and shot gun, I had pepper spray, a flashlight and a second hand baton. At times like that... you hated that statute.

_________________
Ron Hartley
(Retired)

_________________________________________________________
To avoid confusion and misunderstanding:
I am fairly new in the bail bonds part of the legal system. I've been in the legal profession 25 years - Paralegal and Legal investigator.

I am not a BEA - just a Bondsman trying to improve and become a better bondsman.
_________________________________________________________

Point of fact, an arrest is simply an extension of detainment and the reasonable person applies, ie. Would a reasonable person believe that he is free to go or not. No physical restraints are required.

In our business, we don't arrest people, we re-arrest them because the apprehension is an extension of the original arrest. This is also why there is no Miranda requirement. (Miranda v. AZ 1966)

Those that have read this site in depth are keenly aware that we use the actual state governed website for accuracy regarding statutes in a given state, print that out as close to the day of apprehension, and have it with us. Industry websites that have information as was posted are often accurate on the day they were written and often not current, as is this case. Also, as in any form of information transfer, the work should be cited as to where it was taken from, or it represents your work, plagiarism comes to mind.

Lastly, your contributions are most welcome, but please give credence to several points: nobody here knows everything, but many of the members could qualify as subject matter experts in a court of law. Please make your points in a more concise manner, I have books that I read, and that is ot here!

Scott

_________________
R.E. "Scott" MacLean III

"Leaders are like Eagles, you never see them in a flock, but one at a time"

Chesapeake Group Investigations, Inc.
Chesapeake Bail Bonds
877-574-0500
301-392-1100 (fax)
301-392-1900 (Office)