4am, they won't open the door...

Andy

Touche'

Scott

_________________
R.E. "Scott" MacLean III

"Leaders are like Eagles, you never see them in a flock, but one at a time"

Chesapeake Group Investigations, Inc.
Chesapeake Bail Bonds
877-574-0500
301-392-1100 (fax)
301-392-1900 (Office)

Saginaw,
Please call me tomorrow. I will be driving for a while and may have a project for you.

Scott

_________________
R.E. "Scott" MacLean III

"Leaders are like Eagles, you never see them in a flock, but one at a time"

Chesapeake Group Investigations, Inc.
Chesapeake Bail Bonds
877-574-0500
301-392-1100 (fax)
301-392-1900 (Office)

Scott.... Project...? Uh Oh...

Ok your right, LE at door= no good

Just kidding... but the sentence "I may have a project for you" given in the context of this thread sounds a little scary... But I'll call you tomorrow none the less.

Andy: Warrant is unfortunately in our vocabulary here in Mich. Some counties won't take the fug it we don't have a paper warrant, altough most will if the subject is in LEIN and they verify it before we drop them off. Over here procedure varies from county to county. In one county we drive the fugitive in the sallyport the same as LE does. We fill out the lodging paperwork, read the fug the "are you suicidal etc" statements, and sign the lodging paperwork with our name/agency/ and badge number. I use my PD badge number as most BEA's that I know don't have one Other counties (neighboring ones even) have us wait in the lobby until LE shows up and takes the fug into custody.

You mentioned "revoking the bond" vs serving the warrant...

If the fug has missed his date and a bench warrant is issued... well... thats what we usually wait for. We call the court to verify the warrant, and arrest them based on the warrant. If a warrant hasn't been issued yet, then we have to wait before we arrest them. I know others have told me that we do not "arrest" only LE does, we "apprehend". Michigan law reads that we "arrest" them so that is the term I use.

I have to stress this though as this thread continues.......PLEASE NOTE:....

I am not trying to be a thorn in anyones side, a "troublemaker" on these boards, I do not like to "challenge" people or prove them wrong (except my wife ) . I just truly did not fully understand how the LE being present would affect the situation "legally". I don't mean if the officer has to get involved... fighting etc. Or if the BEA does not properly ID himself and the LEO doesn't say anything so the fug thinks they are the same. Although if the arrest is valid I can't see where it would matter what the fug thinks... but thats another story.
It was just this basic concept that I wanted to explore and understand. And when I think about it, since state laws very so much. How could we (being from different states) properly discuss that topic? I don't claim to know the 1st thing about Alabama state law so you are probably 100% correct regarding "colour of the law" and how it could change things there. I was speaking from a Michigan perspective only.

I'm going to go on a "I agree with you" campaign to show my support for all the veterans here since I am always winding up on the opposite sides of a debate I always feel kind of bad since I'm the "new guy" so I'm probably wrong.... I just really want to know why i'm wrong thats all.

So for Scott, Andy, Mindtracker..... all of the people I'm debating against... you guys (and girls) are great and I wouldn't trade all this learning experience for the world. So if I ever overstep my boundary or piss you off please let me know.

Since we have 2 cases that are on opposite sides of the state.... I guess I'll get back to work. Good luck all.. and Scott... I'll TX you tomorrow as per your request.

Terry

Mindtracker...
Noticed the above post with:
I just returned (3am this morning) from a midnight run into a neighboring state. We spent all weekend looking for 3 seperate high dollar cases. Upon doing our initial leo check in at the local PD, 1 of the very first statements made to us by the shift Sgt. was that his dpt could not assist us because of "Colour of Law". Imagine that, a veteran cop knew the law regarding leo assistance.....hmmmm seems like I've been trying to get this across throughout this whole thread to no avail.

I do understand this... not as colour of law, but as: Sorry sir we cannot assist since it is a civil matter, however we can do a stand by. I know first hand that PD cannot "help" with any civil process. Our chief has told us that also. My whole reason for going on like this is that I think you are saying if PD shows up "doing a standby" or just being there that the legal aspects would change. That was my only challenge.

Terry

Saginaw, Im not arguing with you or anyone. Just interjected that I was not taught that way and dont operate that way. Thats all. Dont know about Michigan law.

I have only picked up one skip in Michigan. Niles, to be exact. We picked up one in Elkhart IN and one in Niles MI. Father and son team. LOL

Only had a brief contact with LE in Niles. We called before hitting the house, after we watched it for hours and made positive ID when he walked into his backyard. Two LEOs showed up and didnt even get out of the car. Didnt look at paperwork. Didnt say much at all. Just watched and left.

FWIW, there you go again Luvonda LOL, the son in Elkhart, LE took over. We called and told them he was at work in a factory. They told us not to do anything til they got there. Sent 3 cars and we sat in the parking lot while they went in. One LEO came to the door and motioned us in. They had him on his knees in the managers office. The Leo asked if that was our boy and we took him in custody and took off.

I know this is off topic, but it brings back memories.

Hey Andy,

Good to hear things went well for you in Michigan

Quick question for you: You weren't taught "what way" ? and don't operate what way?

Terry

Thats hillbillly speak.

Just meant not using the word warrant. It can get you into trouble.....

Thanks. Thats been quite a while ago in MI, 2001 to be exact.....

Terry, most of the vets here look at the big picture. Safety and Liability. Since a lot of us have been to multiple states, it's safe to say no matter where you are, you respect the law. Not meaning you are dis-respecting the law in your local AO, but if you were to leave your AO and did not respect the color of law, then it can very easily be over for you and your team.
Ask a cowboy wanna be that used to do recoveries here locally. He was fine if he was in his local AO. But then I find out he tried working in the same manner in Florida and Chicago, the cops had him and his team handcuffed in the back of their car. To date they have yet to be charged. Even in our own state two counties up, they are being investigated for impersonating an officer.
This cowboy wanna be and his team are blackballed in this industry simply because they refused to see "The Big Picture".

_________________
Jay Shell
Covering North East AL.
AAA / Eagle Bail Bonds, LLC
Anniston, AL
256.235.2437

Hi Eagle,

You said the key part at the end.... "impersonating an officer" and being a cowboy.
I do not cowboy or impersonate any officer here in my own AO. I have valid PD ID so it would be kinda weird, but none the less I do not mix the two.
I think most are taking my posts wrong for some reason.... I was just saying that I didn't understand how the law would change "if PD showed up for whatever reason" thats all. There have been a lot of statements on this forum that pertained to "color/colour (spelling depends on member) of the law" and how it apparently "changes things" during an apprehension. This does not mean that I do not respect the law or follow it wherever I go. I just wondered what "changed" legally if PD showed up to do a standby or whatever. I have heard all kinds of crazy statements, well I would view as crazy anyway, sorry
Someone said that if PD showed up the skip would have to be "read miranda" since in PD presence! In Michigan, that would be ridiculous! Miranda only pertains to statements made by an individual "in custody" that may/ may not be used in court against them. Once again, I don't care what the skip tells me. He can say he just robbed 10 banks last night. If I believed him I may call PD and let them know, then THEY would read him his Miranda if needed. I am ONLY LODGING the fugitive on the FTA warrant. I am not investigating him for that or any other case he may have. No investigation is needed, the warrant is already issued. It is a "non-argumentable" circumstance. So why would I care what he says in front of me that Miranda would protect him against????
Not just Miranda.... but similar statements have been made that all seem to be pointing that basically "things" meaning "something????? " change when PD shows up. I was just asking what changes legally? There is an online definition which in part reads:

To act "under color of state law" means to act beyond the bounds of lawful authority, but in such a manner that the unlawful acts were done while the official was purporting or pretending to act in the performance of his official duties. In other words, the unlawful acts must consist of an abuse or misuse of power which is possessed by the official only because he is an official.

Actually the phone rang just now and it was Scott. He did explain it in better detail, ********************* removed for anti-thug education As this is interesting I will look into it as soon as I can. My original rebuttle came from a state law perspective. Once again, I am not "against" Mindtracker, Andy, Scott...etc... I just didn't quite understand.

Terry

OK Guys I knew that was what everyone was referring to - however let us NOT EDUCATE the thugs anymore than they already are.
We get refreshed on that one every cont'ing ed. (fed)
I still like to have them keep the peace - but I have only used their services for that one time and it was on a recovery that they we did for a fella out of Idaho.
Other than that I go find them and tell them where I will be so that it does not go out over the radio, the majority of the Deputies and city Officers I have in my phone - God help me if I lose the phone
MarylandBountyHunter, Thanks for the remind on that one - I researched it past the "rule".

"I have heard all kinds of crazy statements, ...Someone said that if PD showed up the skip would have to be "read miranda" since in PD presence!" Terry

Kinda silly don't you think being as the individual already knows why he is being picked up and it isn't on a charge that would require being Miranda'd by the LE . . .

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