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| Utah Bail Enforcement Question... http://fugitiverecovery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9578 |
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| Author: | ThomasR [ Sat 07 Feb 2009 02:48 ] |
| Post subject: | Utah Bail Enforcement Question... |
Anyone hear ever do Bail Enforcement in Utah? I talked to a Bondsman today and he stated that BEA's in Utah were not allowed to wear badges or any sort of items identifying them as BEAs. However this link: http://www.le.state.ut.us/~1999/bills/h ... HB0381.htm which is from the Utah state legislator says that you may carry a badge AS LONG AS they design is approved by the Department of Public Safety and have the license numbers on it. However, it appears this MAY have been stricken from the law because whenever I do a search for that in current legislation, there is NOTHING about badges. They do have ID cards... but there is nothing about badges in CURRENT legislation so I do not know where that badge law went that is in the link above. Basically, has anyone ever done BEA work in Utah and used a badge/knows anyone who has? There is nothing prohibiting it in the law books as long as it doesn't misrepresent itself as a law enforcement badge (which all my badges clearly state BAIL ENFORCEMENT AGENT) Anyone have a opinion? |
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| Author: | tsuggs [ Sun 08 Feb 2009 12:30 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Utah Bail Enforcement Question... |
Whenever I had questions in CA, I went straight to the to cop, the AJs office. I would write them a letter and see what their answer is. If they can't help, no one can. |
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| Author: | SpanielPI [ Sun 08 Feb 2009 13:03 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Utah Bail Enforcement Question... |
I echo Tony's answer, which in a seperate thread on a different topic, was expanded on further by Scott M. Basically the strategy is to seek WRITTEN answers from governing agencies, AG's offices, DOI's, or print the answers out from thier departmental websites, etc. and keep them on your person (i.e. case file, brief case, etc.) so if and when you are confronted by leo's regarding an issue all you have to do is present the documentation on that agency's letterhead signed by that dept. Head. Naturally, you only wish to carry copies, not the originals. Another step I take is that whenever I speak to anyone that is in any kind of authoritative or administrative position, I always, always, document that conversation in my case file. "On this date, at this time, I spoke with Jane Doe, Head of...yadda yadda yadda at this number...." You get the idea. Obviously this is following the old CYB acronym..."Cover Your Butt". Whenever things go wrong, people are quick to disassociate themselves from you. But its even more difficult for them to utilize "Plausible Deniability" when you begin to name names, dates, phone numbers, locations, etc. |
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| Author: | KARMA [ Sun 08 Feb 2009 14:59 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Utah Bail Enforcement Question... |
Ditto to the both of the above. |
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| Author: | ThomasR [ Mon 09 Feb 2009 22:57 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Utah Bail Enforcement Question... |
Before I posted on this board, I emailed the Utah CBI. They have finally responded a week later. No badges in Utah, however the state issues a official ID for BEA's. They recommend wearing that on a lanyard... To respond to the "ask cops in California" I just want to tell you about a incident with the Sacramento Police Department I had. I served a warrant at the uncle of a fugitives house. Myself and my fellow agents were arrested serving a LEGAL warrant in a LEGAL area (this was even the address on the bail app) and we were taken to jail. The charges were later dropped and the officers repremanded. They would not recognize our warrant. They were simply uneducated but the way they handled the whole incident was irresponsible. So dont always believe what you hear from the police... |
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| Author: | Kathy [ Mon 09 Feb 2009 23:29 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Utah Bail Enforcement Question... |
There was an incident in UT where a family member filed charges against an out of state agent for an apprehension that ended up with the out of state winning the right to have made the apprehension in Utah's Supreme Court. It had nothing to do with badges, only the person's right to make the apprehension. Because different states have different laws on badges, I usually consider carrying one as a negative. My paperwork is my authority. If that is in order, and I follow the apprehension laws in the state I am working in, that is all I need. It is better to be safe rather than be a test case. A badge is nothing but a symbol that can be interpreted in so many different ways by anyone we come in contact with. Some people want to see one, even if it means nothing. Others will use seeing it in an attempt to claim you presented yourself as LE because that is what they associate any form of badge with. Why complicate things with an unnessary item? It might be cool to flash, but is irrevelent in the overall scheme of our work. If we end up in court, all that matters is the proper paperwork. |
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| Author: | SnoWolf [ Tue 10 Feb 2009 06:31 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Utah Bail Enforcement Question... |
I agreed with Kathy, at one point. I said, in the beginning, I would not carry a badge because it was nothing more than a "symbol of status with no true power". I felt it would cause more harm than good. Then, after being questioned "Where is your badge" by LE on several cases and being told by those that I worked with "We will be going in with badges exposed (or tact up)" (and I would end up "barrowing" a badge), I decided to get one. Now, I will hang it from a lanyard when attempting a quick pick up, hang it from my belt on field interviews, or have it hidden while doing surveillance or attempting a "covert" pick up. I have found that many people in small town Georgia will clam up, if I display a badge on a lanyard, flashing in their face, yet they always ask the typical questions if it is not seen. it is one of those things where "your danged if you do and danged if you don't". |
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| Author: | kittygrl [ Tue 10 Feb 2009 07:39 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Utah Bail Enforcement Question... |
Because different states have different laws on badges, I usually consider carrying one as a negative. My paperwork is my authority. If that is in order, and I follow the apprehension laws in the state I am working in, that is all I need. It is better to be safe rather than be a test case. A badge is nothing but a symbol that can be interpreted in so many different ways by anyone we come in contact with. Some people want to see one, even if it means nothing. Others will use seeing it in an attempt to claim you presented yourself as LE because that is what they associate any form of badge with. Why complicate things with an unnessary item? It might be cool to flash, but is irrevelent in the overall scheme of our work. If we end up in court, all that matters is the proper paperwork.[/quote] This is very interesting, because through all my studying of the "General Statues Laws" in my State, I haven't read one thing on Apprehension Laws. I guess I'll start researching these just-in-case they should appear on my test. |
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| Author: | tsuggs [ Tue 10 Feb 2009 15:10 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Utah Bail Enforcement Question... |
Thomas, In the Sac incident, you mentioned you had a "legal warrant." Who issued that warrant? Was it a bench warrant or arrest ( Ramey) warrant? As far as I know from the research I have done, only law enforcement and other designated individuals such as dmv investigators, parole, probation officers, etc can serve "warrants" in CA. Oh, in my first reply, it should have read straight to the TOP Cop, the Attorney General. I left off the "P" in top. |
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| Author: | RCrew [ Tue 10 Feb 2009 17:28 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Utah Bail Enforcement Question... |
I have the same question as Tony. I have picked up numerous people in Sacramento over the years and have never had an issue with Sac PD. The only real issue I have had there is whether Sacramento PD or Sac County Sheriff has jurisdiction and that tends to be in the areas on the edge of the city limits (resolved that by calling both prior to picking up the individual). Did you make the call, as required by law, within six hours of making your apprehension? |
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