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GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT
http://fugitiverecovery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9156		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  speezack [ Wed 12 Nov 2008 10:04 ]
Post subject:  GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT
Situation:

Bondsman is driving to the jail to do a bond... he stops at a traffic light and apparently the driver behind him was irritated because the bondsman did not go through the light and stopped. Two lanes in same direction... the other driver pulls up next to the bondsman and "gets out of his car and walks up to the drivers side while fussing..." he looks in the closed window of the bondsman car and sees the bondsman's firearm sitting on the seat with the bondsman's books... the irate driver immediately backs away and jumps in his car and speeds off... now, the bondsman did not do a thing other than look at the other guy with a questioning glance... he made no attempt to talk or made no signs to the driver at all.... frankly, it happened so quick that the bondsman didn't even realize that the reason the driver ran off was due to the weapon on the seat......... until the following happened....

When the bondsman turned into the jail parking lot, a county deputy was on his tail with his blue lights on... the deputy got out of his car with his weapon drawn and pointed at the bondsman. The bondsman put his hands on the top of the steering wheel after he rolled down his drivers side window... and told the deputy that he was a licensed bondsman and there was a licensed firearm on the seat to his right and he had a legal CCP.

The deputy ordered him out of the car and placed him in handcuffs after doing a search with the bondsman lying over the hood of his car... he charged him with brandishing a firearm and I think something to do with the new road rage law... whatever that is.... anyway... the bondsman had to post a $10,000 bond (through one of his associates, they wouldn't let him post his own bond) and then wrote his other bond that he was there to do....... go figure...

Now people......... give me your take on this scenario... I will tell you the outcome in a while... it was interesting...

one other thing that is pertinent... there were no other people involved and no other witnesses at the original scene... only the bondsman and the other guy.

PS: this didn't happen to me... if it had... there would have been only one person to tell the story.... Image just kidding of course...........
Author:  SnoWolf [ Wed 12 Nov 2008 11:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT
I can only post what happened to someone, here.....Very similar situation.

The complainant was charged for several counts of "False Accusations" after his record was looked at. Seems that he had told the exact same story many times and gotten many people in trouble.... one of those being an Under Cover cop with camera's and mics, in the car. My friend, (the bondsman/repo guy, and supposed actor) ended up with a minuscule $ amount on a civil case but his record was cleared. The down side for him was that his weapon had been lost during the 1 year or so that it took to hear the case (I never understood why the gun wasn't returned as soon as his name was cleared....why it still had to go before a judge?.... but I don’t understand all law, either)
Author:  MarshallSvc [ Wed 12 Nov 2008 11:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT
Well there are 2 ways to look at this.

IMHO, the bondsman did no wrong, and the "road rage" guy over reacted.

However, a CCP is just that, concealed, and the fact that the weapon was in plain view to anyone who approached the vehicle may violate the CCP rules, unless they allow in their laws that the weapon can be "in close proximity" of the person.

I also think the deputy failed to get both sides of the story and make a fair judgement in this case.
Author:  SnoWolf [ Wed 12 Nov 2008 13:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT
OH, in Georgia we don't have a "concealed" or "open" carry. We just have a "weapon's permit" so that is different than the original story.
Author:  Mdbtyhtr [ Wed 12 Nov 2008 14:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT
If someone approaches me in a menacing manner at a traffic light, out of their vehicle, they will be no question that they will see a gun if I am in fear for my life.

Scott
Author:  BondgirlCA [ Wed 12 Nov 2008 16:32 ]
Post subject:  Re: GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT
CT is a concelaed carry state...if I left Brutus on the seat next to me, I'd get a breach of peace charge and have to call my partner to bail my arse out....
Author:  DSI [ Wed 12 Nov 2008 16:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT
Mdbtyhtr wrote:
If someone approaches me in a menacing manner at a traffic light, out of their vehicle, they will be no question that they will see a gun if I am in fear for my life.

Scott


Yes sir, he will sure see the business end of the firearm, and if he is a total asshat the flash also. :twisted:

Bill,

If that event occured in Virginia most likely the bondsman will be arrested based only of the statement of the asshat who most likely lied. It sounds as if the deputy had only the so called complainant story and the (PC) of the deputy seeing the gun lying on the seat. It seems as if the deputy should have done more of an investigation before making an arrest. I sure you know Virginia allows open carry without a permit. This same type of thing occured in Northern Virginia a few years ago and the bail enforcement agent had to spend big money with an attorney to clear himself of the criminal charge of brandishing. When the true facts came out it showed that the bail enforcement agent had in fact pull his weapon and pointed it at several subjects. What the facts showed was that the complainants failed to say that they were attempting to take the re-arrest away from the agent with baseball bats.
Author:  SpanielPI [ Wed 12 Nov 2008 16:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT
I had a similar encounter last night while searching for a fugitive in a remote part of my county that I don't normally frequent.

I was going to the co-signer's house to ask her where her former boyfriend currently was living. She had co-signed on a $5k bond for him in March of '07. So I was reading the numbers on the mailboxes as I was driving down the road in my attempt to locate the correct house on this road. In so doing, a local resident fell in behind me, read my car tag and then called 911 reporting me as vandalizing mailboxes on this road.

2 Sherif's deputies fell in behind me, executed a felony takedown, etc etc. Of course I had all of my paperwork, permits, warrants, pictures, etc. The primary deputy interrogated me, asking me all kinds of questions about my client, the c/s, the fugitive....to make things even more unbelievable, it was thier warrant...a felony county warrant....etc.

Admittedly I was angry. When I was finally able to stand free and actually talk to the deputy I asked him why I had been stopped. It was then he told me about the call dispatch had recieved. Then right before releasing me, he commented to me that my car tag was expired...which I knew it wasn't....I told him so, respectfully, no it wasn't to please re-read it. So he did, then he commented, oh I didn't see the '09.

This guy was really looking to find some reason to make an arrest...when he asked me how long I had been working for my client, I told him for app. 8 yrs, off and on. He said well I've never seen you before. So it was over, I moved on.

Later that evening, still looking for my fugitive, I observed the same 2 deputies conducting a 2nd felony takedown on another person at about the same place I had been earlier. They really were looking to make an arrest that night.

Regarding my hunt, after 5 hours of checking numerous addresses, 2 interviews with the c/s, and driving all over the NE part of my county I finally took my fugitive into custody around 3:30 this morning.
Author:  speezack [ Wed 12 Nov 2008 21:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT
Glad you were successful in your hunt............

So what you all are saying is that some states allow concealed carry but not open carry... but visible in a vehicle if you do have a CCP is still illegal? I think DSI is correct about Virginia being open carry.... I of course do have a CCP but very seldom do I have the weapon on me... I do however, take it with me most of the time... and when I am traveling alone I usually have it under my briefcase which is often times on the passengers seat, so, it might be visible. I do however, put it under the seat if I get out... I have a variety of weapons that I can easily conceal but I just hardly ever put it on my person... maybe I need to start... but there are so many places that you cannot carry I would have to think about it..... schools, bars, libraries, restaurants that serve alcohol.... etc. etc...... any LE places, courts etc.... most malls are restricted... the main places that I would carry are illegal........ and then there are different state laws that restrict... so......... go figure.... my thought on carry is..... if you think you might need it.... you better be packin', worry about the law later (unfortunately)

You know the old saying......... "judged by 12 or carried by 6"... your choice....

I will tell you the outcome on this case later.......... you may be surprised......
Author:  Kathy [ Wed 12 Nov 2008 21:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: GUILTY UNTIL PROVEN INNOCENT
Colorado is an open carry state so as long as the weapon is visible you can carry it most anywhere. With a CCW you can carry concealed most anywhere. As of a few years ago, the law changed to allow your vehicle and your place of business to be an extension of your home. Inside any of these places the weapon can legally be carried concealed or open. We are also a "make my day law" state so if somebody comes at me in an agressive manner and I am fearful for my life, they will most likely come face to face with the barrel of my gun. We also have laws against road rage and agressive driving, so it would more likely be me calling 911 reporting the other driver.
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