HG,
Your advice is sound. I already have a plan that will involve another BEA for the very obvious reasons that you stated: 1) they have the local contacts with thier PD's 2) They know thier area's laws, local Do's and Dont's.
Thanks
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| TN Agents Arrested in KY http://fugitiverecovery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=858 |
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| Author: | thebishopp [ Wed 22 Jun 2005 09:26 ] |
| Post subject: | TN Agents Arrested in KY |
Anyone got an update on those agents in KY? Arraignment was yesterday and I can't find anything on the news links previously posted. A note to all the members of "big" Agencies out there. You should be very interested in this case. Providing that the those fellas didn't impersonate police officers, then this is your test case! They are in the mix and could use whatever help is available. Letter writing to the local paper with statistics (I know you guys keep up on that stuff). No doubt the fact that KY makes it more difficult to recover fugitives, thus making KY a GREAT place for criminals to run and hide... might be handy. |
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| Author: | rex [ Wed 22 Jun 2005 11:25 ] |
| Post subject: | Throw The Dice |
Don, No, I haven't learned anything new on this one. If you go over some posts here and on other forums, you may come to the conclusion that some people speak of crossing state lines with no problems, but I wonder--provided that the various accounts are accurate in detail--if any number of them are cases where people shoot in and out undetected. I realize that states laws vary and this could account for doing pick ups out-of-state problem free. I'm running off of recall here and please advise if my memory isn't drawing a completely accurate picture here, but this specific incident did come off as a quick run for an undetected pick up based on what is available in the news. Be that as it may, I concur that this one will be interesting to watch. Specifically, I'd like to see some published case cites on this. Rex |
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| Author: | SpanielPI [ Wed 22 Jun 2005 11:54 ] |
| Post subject: | |
I personally called and spoke with a prosecuter in the Ky State Attorney General's Office yesterday for clarification on BEA activity in the state of Ky.. KRS 440.270 and 440.280 contradict each other. I pointed this out to him. He said he would have to research them and my question and call me back, which he did within app. 45 minutes. The general opinion that he gave me is this : No bail agent or bondsman may effect an apprehension in Ky. However, out of state sureties MAY seek remedy through the CJ system of NCIC, extradition, and a governor's warrant. This is outlined in KRS440.270 which was adopted 01/02/78. KRS440.280 was adopted 06/16/60. So there is 18 years difference between these two statutes. I also sought advice from some of our industry's top trackers and they stated a good rule of thumb to follow is to obey the most restrictive or the most recent law or laws on any jurisdiction's books. So now I have to go to plan "B" of luring my fugitive out of ky into a BEA friendly state and apprehending him there. I hope my contribution helps any who have questions regarding Ky. |
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| Author: | HGUNNER [ Wed 22 Jun 2005 12:29 ] |
| Post subject: | BAD POP |
BEFORE I GO INTO ANY STATE I CHECK THE STATES LAWS AND REGS-KENTUCKY IS A NO - NO -STATE--IF YOUR SKIP IS NCIC WORK WITH THE PD TO POP YOUR SKIP--DO NOT DO IT YOURSELF PERIOD--IF YOUR SKIP IS NOT NCIC TELL THE BONDSMEN SORRY--LAST YEAR I POPPED A SKIP IN WISCONSIN(ANOTHER NO- NO STATE) I CALLED THE OSH KOSH PD BEFORE GOING OUT THERE AND SPOKE TO THE CHIEF WHO TOLD ME THE ACCEPTABLE LIMITS-I COMPLIED AND ON JULY 4 04 MY SKIP(A CHILD RAPIST WAS IN ARRESTED BY OSH KOSK AND TRANSPORTED BACK TO NH BY CON AIR--BONDSMEN HAPPY OSHKOSH HAPPY HADLEY HAPPY AND PAID. REMEMBER IT TAKES MONEY TO MAKE MONEY-I ALWAYS SHARE THE PIE WITH LOCAL BEAS - THEY KNOW THE TERRITORY AND LOCAL PD AND LOCAL REGS BETTER THAN I - LONG AND SHORT USE LOCAL BEA ON OUT OF STATE POPS |
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| Author: | SpanielPI [ Wed 22 Jun 2005 12:52 ] |
| Post subject: | |
HG, Your advice is sound. I already have a plan that will involve another BEA for the very obvious reasons that you stated: 1) they have the local contacts with thier PD's 2) They know thier area's laws, local Do's and Dont's. Thanks
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| Author: | thebishopp [ Wed 22 Jun 2005 13:00 ] |
| Post subject: | |
I am not interested in stiring up another debate on KY law. The reason for this post was to find out more about the incident in Middlesboro and to mention that this case was one to watch for setting precedent in KY (providing of course that these guys did NOT impersonate police officers). As far as the two KRS contradicting each other. They do not. If you read the wordind one applies to bail bondsman and their agents. The second applies to private citizens. KY has made a distinction between the two. From my experience in dealing with KY prosecutors as well as the AG (I attended the KY Police Academy DOCJT with Lee Wise, at the time an AG Investigator), is that he told you the safest thing to do to prevent any problems whatsoever. Section 2 of the KRS provides that: "no bail bondsman or his agent shall arrest, detain, imprison, or remove from the state any person for having broken the terms of his bail unless a warrant for that person's arrest has been issued as provided for in subsection (1) of this section." The wording is NOT ambiguous and is VERY clear. See the judge, get the warrant issued and either wait for the local police to pick him up or exercise the authority granted you by Subsection TWO and the Warrant issued as provided for in Subsection ONE in which case you would pick them up and bring them before the circuit or district judge in the area you caught him to answer the charge. Now there is nothing here that talks about extradition as it this statute SPECIFICALLY deals with Bail Bondsmen and their agents. Now if you don't have to go into KY to get someone then it probably would be best not to go... however if you do not have much option then I would print out a copy of this KRS and, if you want to follow the letter of the law, go in to the local prosecutor and give it to him while requesting a meeting with the local circuit or district court judge. This is not to say that they will follow the law and not try to bully you out of the state.... KY has a reputation of the "just us" philosophy being applied quite liberally. This not to say all members of Law Enforcement are warped in this fashion, but a good chunk are... makes it harder for the rest of the actually intelligent officers out there to operate. |
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| Author: | thebishopp [ Wed 22 Jun 2005 13:53 ] |
| Post subject: | |
Rex, From what I read in the Middlesboro, KY newspaper (reference that link someone had up in the Kentucky thread), it was basically a tag and bag situation but that "witnesses" called the local PD claiming a kidnapping was happening. They probably had done a few recoveries where they just came in quiet, under the radar, and left. According to the the applicable law, they will face D felony chargest, for not getting a warrant first providing of course that they did not actually impersonate police officers. |
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| Author: | rex [ Wed 22 Jun 2005 19:11 ] |
| Post subject: | |
Mintracker, The following is very sound advice: "I also sought advice from some of our industry's top trackers and they stated a good rule of thumb to follow is to obey the most restrictive or the most recent law or laws on any jurisdiction's books." I appreciate the time that you put into this Kentucky question. Also, while I'm not clear on the differing state laws, have you considered attempts on teching out the bond for your client? Don, "...tag and bag..," I like that 
This one will be well worth the wait-n-see. Rex |
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| Author: | HoundDog [ Thu 23 Jun 2005 15:44 ] |
| Post subject: | |
I appreciate the clarification on this issue it is very clear what needs to be done, it is just unclear as to whether or not you will get to leave the state with your skip. Thanks goes out for all that helped try to clear up the KY issue. And for the record I use the term "Cuff and Stuff" LOL |
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| Author: | thebishopp [ Thu 02 Mar 2006 19:08 ] |
| Post subject: | |
anyone hear what the final disposition of this case was? I do not think they were charged on the violation of KRS 440.270 and were only charged with the impersonating an officer and police radio in possesion charges. If so, I am thinking it is very interesting that they did did charge violation of krs 440.270. Maybe to avoid a possible T vs T arguement? |
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