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Something really aggravating me.
http://fugitiverecovery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12096		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Gardul [ Wed 29 Jun 2011 19:59 ]
Post subject:  Something really aggravating me.
I'm not sure about other states, but here in AZ if I read the laws correctly we can't enter a home if the occupants refuse. Of course we can always call the local authority if we need to. What amazes me is that I have been shown a lot of videos on the internet about bail enforcement busting down doors, breaking locks for gates to gain access and so forth. I don't know about you guys, but I find that a little unprofessional. If your state law permits you in entering a subjects house, there are many ways to gain entry with out busting down doors. A simple idea is a lock pick set. I know some states you can't own them. But for the most part, I would think picking the lock is a little more professional then kicking in something. We aren't a team of commandos or the SWAT. I just don't see the point in busting in a door. Now if someone can actually explain a good reason on why, I should learn to kick down a door with my foot rather then using a lock pick; by all means enlighten me.

have a good day and stay safe out there.
Author:  speezack [ Wed 29 Jun 2011 20:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Something really aggravating me.
Knock on the door, when they ask who it is... tell them you are delivering a Pizza... when they say they didn't order one... tell them you can't take it back and they can have it anyway... no one turns down a free pizza... when they open the door... step inside and .......................... well, you know the rest.

... go to Pizza Hut or Dominoes and get a little hat, order and eat a pizza and save the box..... wear the hat and carry the box... instead of your swat gear.... you can keep your gun in your belt behind your back... along with your proper paperwork.... Nobody is afraid of a pizza delivery guy.............................. even fugitives.....

... you can even get one of those little lights that sits on top of your car... if they look out the window they will see a lighted pizza sign.... not a blue light....

... don't laugh, this works if done right.... I have never kicked a door down... never... but I have delivered many pizza's.... :shock:

... my advice... use your head, not your foot...
Author:  Gardul [ Wed 29 Jun 2011 20:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Something really aggravating me.
speezack, We call that method in the IT field Social Engineering. Funny thing is it works. I would prefer to pretend to be something ( not law enforcement of course) then busting in doors or picking locks.
Author:  speezack [ Wed 29 Jun 2011 20:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Something really aggravating me.
The only problem associated with this type of activity... is... if your the kind of guy that likes to talk about how tough, aggressive, successful and how many skips you have captured... in your favorite bar, impressing the ladies... well... probably laughing is about all that it will garner...

I suppose I can be a bit tougher if I have to, although now at my age, I would rather laugh than fight ... and I would greatly prefer to knock em down with humor and walk them into the police station without scratches, bumps or bruises... it's easier on everyone but it just doesn't provide you macho guys with much in the way of stories....

... of course, if I run across a real tough guy... I just call my buddies and let them handle it their way... and if faced with deadly force... I am an excellent shot. :roll: :roll:
Author:  Gardul [ Wed 29 Jun 2011 20:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: Something really aggravating me.
On the subject of being macho, I'm a big guy. As I stated in my introduction, I'm 6'7. I'm not wanting to be in this field because I want to win over ladies and appear to be some macho madman. I rather our smart someone then by using brute force. To me that is more fulfilling then marking up someone with cuts or bullet holes.

Here's a story for you;

When I was in college, I was working with a Security team that tested both physical and Computer. I was their Social Engineer. So I staked out the company I was hired to see if their security was in proper place. they set up a dummy server in a room near the real server was located. After a few days, from digging through trash ( for getting names ) figuring out roughly where the local server was located I noticed something fantastic. A UPS guy came to the office building once a day. Made a mock UPS get up ( really not hard, thank god for walmart) and went in, signed in with a fake name, said I had a package to pick up from the network admin ( I knew his name, and floor) they gave me a visitor badge and I went in and did my job ( even got to lock pick a door). Next day had a meeting with the owner of the company and said I was successful in my task and this is how i would fix it.

Moral of the story is, with the right information, tactics and understanding; brain power is more useful then brute force. I could have easily went in there guns blazing to get what i wanted too.
Author:  tsuggs [ Wed 29 Jun 2011 21:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: Something really aggravating me.
Jonathan,

Please beware that as you said each state has it's own rules and laws regarding forcible entry.

And for your info, if you come to CA and "pick a lock" to gain entry you will be charged with a couple of things including Penal Code Section 466. Possession of burglary tools.

In my county, I beleive the bail for that is $20K when charged as a felony.

I made quite a bit of money off of clients charged with a PC 466! 8)
Author:  RCrew [ Wed 29 Jun 2011 21:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Something really aggravating me.
A word of caution about picking locks....in many jurisdictions that would be considered burglary or breaking and entering. If a door is shut and locked and I'm not able to talk my way in, there is always tomorrow..or the next day...or the next....good surveillance can work wonders in gaining knowledge on the coming and going of your subject.
Author:  Gardul [ Wed 29 Jun 2011 23:13 ]
Post subject:  Re: Something really aggravating me.
I Do understand that. And well I'm from NY, I think it's a class 3 felony. Not sure here in AZ, as For the obvious reasons and laws I can't Use them anyway. I'm not saying I am condoning the use of lock picks As they are Illegal in most cities and states. If there are laws against it, then of course obey the law and be professional. I guess it was a bad comparison and Forgive me. I had no intentions to go out in the field and actually USE lock picks. even if they where legal here in AZ, and I had the right to forcible entry here, I'm sure the cops would LOVE me to explain why i have them. It would make more problems than resolve anything. Sorry if i sounded like another loopy person. I should have made it clear as a WHAT IF type thought rather then a gong ho thought i guess. Ether way, Both methods I find wrong. but if it where legal, I would rather use the lock picks rather then the kicking in door. again sorry if anyone got the wrong Idea about me from my post. I swear, I would never use them in this matter.. It was just a thought.. stay safe everyone.
Author:  MadMadi [ Wed 29 Jun 2011 23:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Something really aggravating me.
Posing as an Avon lady always works to... :wink:

Then theres the carpet cleaner, Direct TV sales person, Jehovahs Witnesses, broken down car, etc anyone could pull off....
Author:  speezack [ Thu 30 Jun 2011 06:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Something really aggravating me.
I am a retired UPS road driver... I have a closet full of uniforms :lol: :oops:

I have served papers using the UPS approach but they do frown on that and would be rather upset if I was 'cornered' in their pretty brown suit... but all you need is a UPS hat and maybe one of their vests, that can be purchased online.

I even know the 'lingo' for delivery and pickup... and it will get you in places that nothing else will do... very good working approach and I don't think there is a particular law related to "impersonating a UPS driver?"; LE yes, UPS no.

I don't own burglary tools... besides that is too difficult an art to master... I would rather get fussed at for wearing UPS stuff than get a B@E and a 20K bond... so far I have not had any felony charges... although I did get locked up in Boise Idaho for fighting in a bar (it wasn't my fault!!) :mrgreen: but that was about 50 years ago and another story.............................
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