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Split bonds-Property/Surety
http://fugitiverecovery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10461		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  speezack [ Fri 02 Oct 2009 07:42 ]
Post subject:  Split bonds-Property/Surety
Question:

How does your state/jurisdiction handle split bonds. Are they allowed?

Example: I have done this quite a bit, depending on the circumstances of course.... defendants family has a house with an equity value of $50k, the bond is $100k.... we walk into the magistrate with all our paperwork in order, the magistrate takes a deed of trust on the property for $50k and a surety power from me for $50k and releases the defendant.

I have also split bonds with other bondsmen from different companies.... right!... I once wrote a bond with a 4 way split.... $250k... I took 50k and the other 3 bondsmen split up the difference in varied amounts totaling the full $250k. There were 3 different sureties involved. The magistrate didn't care, as long as the liability on the bond was covered...

Good for the family, the defendant and me.... I am not the least bit concerned because I know the family will make damn sure the def goes to his court dates because their home is on the line.

Question:
I have been told that in some states, even though the bond is split, each poster on the bond is responsible for the full liability of the bond even though they have signed for their portion only. How is it in your state?
Author:  tsuggs [ Fri 02 Oct 2009 17:25 ]
Post subject:  Re: Split bonds-Property/Surety
In CA we can split between a property bond done directly by the court and a surety bond for the balance not covered by the equity in the property.

However, there can only be one surety bond posted per case. We can not "stack" surety bonds on the same case.

In the event of a forfeiture, we are only liable for our amount of the bond.
Author:  speezack [ Fri 02 Oct 2009 17:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Split bonds-Property/Surety
tsuggs wrote:
However, there can only be one surety bond posted per case. We can not "stack" surety bonds on the same case.


In VA, stacking is also not permitted but that term refers to one agent using more than one power on a single bond.... What I am talking about is using more than one bondsman.... each taking a portion and with different companies and different sureties...
Author:  Mdbtyhtr [ Fri 02 Oct 2009 19:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: Split bonds-Property/Surety
In Maryland, Stacking Powers refers to a single bondsman using powers from 2 different surety companies, or 2 or more bondsman writing insurance, posting more than one surety power. We split bonds all of the time between a homeowner and a surety or a home owner and a professional property bondsman or even a surety bondsman and property bondsman or 2 or more property bondsmen.

Read your powers, there is often in the small type statements rendering the power void if used in coordination with an additional surety power, or if the total bond amount exceeds the posting agents limit of liability.

We had a bondsman locally with a liability limit of $100k from 2 different companies, post a $200k bond with a $100k from each company and the commissioner took the bond (and should not have accepted it) the bond forfeited, I found the guy, never got paid a dime, the bondsman filed bankruptcy because both insurance companies were coming after the bondsman's home and I was included as a debtor in the bankruptcy!


Scott
Author:  Kathy [ Fri 02 Oct 2009 20:26 ]
Post subject:  Re: Split bonds-Property/Surety
Only one single bond/power in the full amount is allowed here...Although I did have one instance where the court ordered part of the bail to be paid in cash, and the remainder could be posted by a surety. Usually they are "either/or" and the court clerk didn't even know how to write it up. She ended up writing out two bonds, one for my part and the other for the cash part. State law allows property bonds if the equity value in the property is 150% of the bond. My local county doesn't do them. Someone recently told me that they had asked about posting such, and was told that it takes about 6 weeks to verify the info and place the lien. That meaning the defendant sits in jail until then. Interesting info since I can get a copy of the owner's latest mortgage statement, go to the courthouse, get the most recent tax appraisal, and file my Deed of Trust lien all in about 15 minutes. Then again, I guess it may be time consuming for them to walk down one flight of stairs, after they figure out what needs to be done :lol: .

There is another county that charges a $30 warrant fee for every warrant issued. The defendant has to post this as a separate cash bond. This county also charges $10 for every bond posted, so they get paid for the $30 cash bonds, too. I had one defendant with 3 bonds, plus 3 warrant bonds. They had to pay $60 on top of my fee and the cash amounts for bond fees. Usually the jails include warrant fees and other charges as something that has to be paid, but not as a bond. I guess this county found the way to get paid double :wink: .

So long story short, only one power can be used to post any one bond, and the power has to be equal to or larger than the bond. The smallest powers I carry are $5K, and the largest I currently have is $50K. For anything larger, I have to send a request to my insurance company along with proof that I have proper collateral. Unless she has what I need in hand, they will then overnight it to my general agent, and I will pick it up from her. I am the only one of her sub-agents that carries anything over $30K, and so9me don't have more that a 15K. That's because I don't write stupid, especially when I know that I would lose everything I own on one large bad bond.
Author:  tsuggs [ Sat 03 Oct 2009 12:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Split bonds-Property/Surety
In CA, it doesn't matter who writes the surety bond, the jail or court will only take one bond / poa per case.

NOW, however there have been himes when the bail amount has been raised on a defendant by the court and we have been allowed to write a new bond for the difference between the original bail amount and the new bail amount. If the judge actually asks us to do that, then we do.

What should happen is the original bond should be exonerated and a new bond in the amount of the total bail should be written. But for the sake of expediancey and since some judges don't know how to handle all the procedures we just write a new bond for the difference between the old and new bail amounts.

I am finishing another situation right now where we had written 2 separate bonds on 2 separate cases for the same guy. The court, da and defendant agreed to combine both cases under one docket. Now I have 2 bonds on one case. They dropped some charges added another.

Bottom line he was deported back in June of 08. I received written proof last month from ICE and have a hearing set for exoneration of BOTH bonds this Friday.
Author:  speezack [ Sat 03 Oct 2009 17:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Split bonds-Property/Surety
This thread sort of went off in another direction about number of powers etc.... I'll throw this out there ..........

I have one power for $100k, 3 for $50k and then half dozen or so for 26k.... and a bunch for lesser amounts.... When I do my report, which is usually when I get more than 3 or more bonds.... maybe every other week... I send it in and they replace them within 48 hrs.... I have been extremely happy with this organization (Seneca).... I have never ask permission to write a bond... I have written up to 100k but I do it extremely tight and have never had to call in the surety on anything.... I keep a good set of books and exoneration done regularly... I have been writing for Seneca for a little over 3 years and have never even had a phone conversation with them... the only thing I have ever needed is a little advise and since my general agent is an attorney.... I get that basically for free.... my take on this business is simple... write smart, write tight, turn in all your reports on time, keep em neat and simple (I type mine and I have no secretary), keep your money separated and balanced (I also have no accountant, although I do have a tax man) and stay under the radar.... I will clean up any mess I make and they know it so they don't ever bother me. I have said before, I am not a big producer, I have never written a million in a year (close but not) but I am steady and efficient and cause no trouble and if someone calls me at 3 am... I will go if it is a workable bond. I guess they can see that and just leave me alone. (I might mention that I am also just a one man show... no stall of agents, just me, but they did give me a very fair contract... which is of course one reason I am so happy)

I sure appreciate all the input on the split bonds thing.... I had wondered if any of you did this... seems to be several lines of thought and laws from differing states here and the responders to my question are the hard ball hitters on here so I know the info is top shelf.... thanks.
Author:  kittygrl [ Sat 03 Oct 2009 21:29 ]
Post subject:  Re: Split bonds-Property/Surety
In VA, stacking is also not permitted but that term refers to one agent using more than one power on a single bond.... What I am talking about is using more than one bondsman.... each taking a portion and with different companies and different sureties...


From what I have studied in NC, only one power can be attached to a bond, and only one surety bondsman can sign a bond or part of a bond; which is based on Q-Powers here as well.

Meaning a bondsman can't use two $ 5,000 powers to sign a $10,000 bond.
Author:  Kathy [ Sun 04 Oct 2009 01:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Split bonds-Property/Surety
One bondsman, one bond, one power is what I was saying is allowed here. As to the amount of the power that I can carry and write, that is pretty much up to what my GA sends me, and what the insurance company allows her. Up until the POA expired last year, I held a 100K power to use at my discretion. The overall point is that I could have used it, and could still get such and use it, but I kind of like having another confirm my decision when it comes to a point where I could lose everything that I own if I went stupid and wrote a bad bond in a large amount without the proper collateral to cover it.

Granted, I have written signature bons with no collateral because I knew that the defendant would show up, but given no experience or knowledge of the defendant, and they didn't go to court, consider the liability to my GA and insurance company. They would be the ones responsible for paying the bond, and they would take whatever assets I had to cover the bond. I could lose my home and/or any other assets that I had because I was greedy and/or stupid.

I'm not stupid, and most of my skips, I get to come in with one or two phone calls. You see, I give them 3 choices. They can come in and rebond, they can pay their bond, or they can run. The first means that I will leave them alone until they miss court again. The second means that they still have a warrent, but I don't care. The third means that I will put them back in jail, and they will play hell finding a bondsman to get them out, because I will have them blacklisted with every bondsman that I know.

Mo9st of my clients choose the first option, and we don't have any further issues.
Author:  tsuggs [ Sun 04 Oct 2009 11:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: Split bonds-Property/Surety
The last split, property & surety bond I did was $172,000 on the property and $3,000 with my surety bond! The court wanted the full $175,000 covered.

CA has the highest bail schedule in the U.S. My average bond is now about $20,000. Now we don't write too many high bonds anymore as most people don't have the 10% or the collateral to back the bond.

Since we have so many clients not able to make payments, we have stopped taking 50% down and balance on a payment plan on most of the bonds we write. So, we write a lot fewer bonds, but usually get the full premium up front.

Another thing, most bail agents in CA are greedy.(Not me of course.) So I doubt that many would split a large bond with others, even if we were allowed to. They would rather illegally discount it and keep what ever amount of premium they could get to themselves and not share.

One case in point. On New Years Day a transit cop shot and killed a man. Eventually his bail was set at $3 million. His attorney shopped around for the cheapest bail agent he could find. The lowest legal % I know of in CA is 8%. Well, some agency posted that bond for a lot less.

Now since I do not have personal knowledge and proof of the actual premium agreed to, I will not state it as it is only rumor. But it is a very reliable rumor.
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